Western Congestion Charge

[scott_forester]

People know what they were getting when they voted for him

I didn't know he was going to spend £5,000,000 pa of our money on consultants. Or transfer almost all of the jobs generated by the CC up norf. I still don't understand why the call centres couldn't have been in London.

 

[comstock]

not really.. congestion levels were rising back to pre-cc days

Nonsense. Evidence please.

 

[citydreams]

Congestion Charging, 3rd Annual Report, April 2005, TfL

 

[comstock]

Congestion Charging, 3rd Annual Report, April 2005, TfL

Hmmm

After spending 20 minutes (!) downloading that http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/cclondon/pdfs/ThirdAnnualReportFinal.pdf

I find (page 13/14 of 65 million)

"Measurements of congestion on main roads in inner London during 2004
suggest stable overall conditions, alongside stable or slightly declining
traffic levels.

The total volume of traffic entering the charging zone during charging
hours in 2004 was identical to 2003, continuing to represent a reduction of
18 percent against pre-charging levels in 2002."

Oh and on page 34 "Measured vehicle-kilometres driven on the Inner Ring Road fell very slightly during 2004, compared to 2003."

Where in this mountain of waffle (how much did all this cost I wonder) is this evidence for increasing traffic

 

[citydreams]

page 32
For the Thames screenline, annualised counts for 2004 (which partly overlap with those referred to in Figure 17) are indicating a small increase of 2 percent over 2003 post-charging flows (for all vehicles).

 

[citydreams]

page38
When comparing 2004 traffic levels with the year before charging (2002), there continue to be small net increases in Southwark, 4 percent, and Kensington and Chelsea, 5 percent, a 1 percent increase in Westminster, and noticeable decreases in Tower Hamlets, 7 percent, and Camden, 13 percent.

 

[scott_forester]

page38
When comparing 2004 traffic levels with the year before charging (2002), there continue to be small net increases in Southwark, 4 percent, and Kensington and Chelsea, 5 percent, a 1 percent increase in Westminster, and noticeable decreases in Tower Hamlets, 7 percent, and Camden, 13 percent.

Are these within the conjestion charge area?

 

[citydreams]

I didn't know he was going to spend £5,000,000 pa of our money on consultants.

Perhaps if there had already been a Mayor there woudldn't have been a need for an army of consultants. As it was, all the knowledge was in the private sector. The CC has made money for London and increased public transport patronage. Everyone else said it couldn't be done. But it has happened and been a success.

Or transfer almost all of the jobs generated by the CC up norf. I still don't understand why the call centres couldn't have been in London.

Why should the call centre be in London?

TfL's London based congestion charging team is around 130 people and expanding to replace the consultants.

 

[pogofish]

Isn't that the problem with all CC projects outside London?

As for cash cows, the law surrounding the introduction of a CC is pretty clear.

Yes, unquestionably.

Dunno, yes in London but very unclear everywhere else - In fact long term plans seem to be shrouded in mystery, with only vague hints of improvements only if certain (usually fiscal) targets are met. Then they tend to change the objectives to suit their latest whim.

eg, My local council has just increased the park & ride rates from £2.80 to £9 per carload - reasons, people were using the buses (& particularly onward connections) too much & having the temerity to make return journeys to their cars to drop-off shopping! Oh, & for the side of the city where the P&R use is most badly needing encouraged, they have just routed the "express" service round a housing estate & added a heap of extra stops on its way into town. Wonder whose interests that serves?

 

[scott_forester]

Why should the call centre be in London?

Because I've seen the Captia operation and think that if it's going to generate jobs (and wealth) from Londoners it should be in London.

 

[citydreams]

Because I've seen the Captia operation and think that if it's going to generate jobs (and wealth) from Londoners it should be in London.

So if TfL takes on the back office operations in London you'll be happy about the scheme?

 

[lighterthief]

Because I've seen the Captia operation and think that if it's going to generate jobs (and wealth) from Londoners it should be in London.

Isn't the whole point though that we need to be moving jobs and people out of London? If we did that we wouldn't be so crowded that we have had to introduce the Congestion Charge in the first place.

 

[JWH]

Isn't that the problem with all CC projects outside London? It's probably the only city with the transport links to support it, if you live in the suburbs of most other towns or cities public transport isn't up to much.

I don't really know about other places but Edinburgh is an example of the exact opposite - it's got great transport links that are only frustrated by the fact the busses are slowed by car traffic. A lot of the arterial routes into EDB are narrow so you can't make bus lanes easily. There's a bunch of railway stations on Edinburgh's peripheries that could act as P&R/feeders if it just wasn't so "cheap and easy" to drive into Edinburgh.

 

[citydreams]

Why do you think it got voted against JWH?

 

[pogofish]

I don't really know about other places but Edinburgh is an example of the exact opposite - it's got great transport links that are only frustrated by the fact the busses are slowed by car traffic.

Just so, there are also no shortage of disused rail lines, tinnells & alternative streets that could be made into public transport only routes. Since this issue came to the fore in the early to mid-80's, there has been no shortage of innovative projects proposed for improving PT access to the centre & overall, a reasonable degree of public support for them. When ever the councils have had the opportunity to make a decision tho, they either stall or avoid making it. No guts, no will to make it work. No wonder voters mistrust them!

 

[JWH]

Why do you think it got voted against JWH?

Don't know, I didn't live there at the time the voting happened. <shrugs> I would have thought the Evening Post's whingeing had something to do with it, along with the lack of credible councillors and an absence of imagination on the part of rezzies.

 

[scott_forester]

I don't really know about other places but Edinburgh is an example of the exact opposite - it's got great transport links that are only frustrated by the fact the busses are slowed by car traffic. A lot of the arterial routes into EDB are narrow so you can't make bus lanes easily. There's a bunch of railway stations on Edinburgh's peripheries that could act as P&R/feeders if it just wasn't so "cheap and easy" to drive into Edinburgh.

When I was working for TSB in Edinburgh all of the IT team lived about a 30 minutes drive from the office; without exception they all whined about the public transport ... maybe it's just a whiny few?

 

[scott_forester]

So if TfL takes on the back office operations in London you'll be happy about the scheme?

I didn't object to the first CC, made my drives into town easier. My point is that Ken raised the charge because it didn't generate the money he expected because it worked better than he forecasted. Apart from that he promised not to raise the charge at all before his election.