Welsh Republican Army - latest communique

Discussion in 'Wales/Cymru' started by ernestolynch, May 4, 2004.

  1. Hollis

    Hollis Bloody furious

    I really don't get this sort of nationalism. Should I go home and watch afew 1960s Ealing comedies & then take a walk around Haringey lamenting the death of English culture?
     
  2. Dr. Christmas

    Dr. Christmas ca suffit

    Sorry, but where does modern Welsh, Scots or Cornish nationalism see the problems of their nation as resulting from the 'English'?

    I'd love to see you produce a quote from an SNP, Plaid or MK spekesperson stating that.

    Cause I've been active in both the SNP and Plaid for nearly a decade and I've yet to hear any front line representative ever state that.

    indeed, ordinary mebers who have voiced such opinions have been kicked out (Settler Watch and the 1320 Club from the SNP, and also individuals from Plaid).
     
  3. Dr. Christmas

    Dr. Christmas ca suffit

    That's because it's bloody obvious that you;ve little interest in engaging with the problems other than to belittle them.
     
  4. pilchardman

    pilchardman Dances With Penguins

    I have no interest in the pronouncements of those parties. I merely point you to the views of bendeus, above. ^^
     
  5. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    Point taken mate. I think there are answers, and I don't want to sound like some rabid 'Wales for the Welsh' loony.

    Provided such polyglots were prepared to assimilate, provided that they attempted to learn the local language, provided that they were mindful of where they were and did not view their new home as simply a pretty spot surrounded by surly locals to be avoided at all costs, and provided that these theoretical inmigrants paid a surcharge on the property they bought, the profits of which was ringfenced to subsidise local first time homes for people from the area, no problem.

    The sad fact is that holiday home owners fit into none of these categories and neither do many English inmigrants who perpetuate the tiresome and risible "I walked into the pub and they all started speaking Welsh" garbage.

    If they wanted to inmigrate to a non-Welsh speaking area then none of the above need apply. I just believe radical measures are required to preserve a very beautiful, necessary and historically important language.

    A final point - very few Gujiratis in the wilds of Wales, hence the presence of the really nasty apotheosis of the blanco, Saesneg inmigrant - Nick Fucking Griffin, who as we know doesn't like to see non-Whites too often, in our fair land. If there was ever a candidate for a home burning.... :mad: :mad: :mad:
     
  6. pilchardman

    pilchardman Dances With Penguins

    Fair enough. And I'm all for cultural diversity, and maintaining local culture. I come from an area that formerly spoke Gaelic. I know a little Gaelic. But the problem isn't the ethnicity of the incomers, it's the disparity between their spending power and that of the locals.

    There are interesting debates to be had about housing and community self help. Ethnicity doesn't need to come into it.
     
  7. Dr. Christmas

    Dr. Christmas ca suffit

    so you have no interest in engaging with their pronouncements, yet you're happy to smugly assert that 'I don't believe them to be progressive'?

    :rolleyes:
     
  8. Hollis

    Hollis Bloody furious

    Nah, that's bollocks. What problem - nationalisms' co-exisitng maybe? Oh being able to have a pride in your nation without labelling problems as being one of English immigirants etc.. of dealing with cultural change maybe?
     
  9. pilchardman

    pilchardman Dances With Penguins

    Did you read my posts? Or are you just assuming that nationalism is only represented by the official press releases of the nationalist parties of Scotland and Wales?
     
  10. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    Seem to be going round in circles here. I know these may seem to be extreme examples but would you make the same contention for Han inmigrants in Tibet or ethnic Javanese in Kalimantan? That is most definitely ethnic, not economic. I respect your points but still feel you are missing the wider one of a need to preserve ethnic and cultural identity against the rising tide of one size fits all, monolithic McCulture. The metropolis/dominator culture will always squeeze out the satellite/oppressed culture economically, but there is an ethnic dimension to the dynamic that you cannot ignore.

    With you being 'all for' ethnic diversity, would you care if 'Wales' died out as an entity or would you see it as a great stride towards a nationless world in which people find common cause through community and shared experience rather than a 'perceived' sense of kindred spirit stemming from a common birthplace?
     
  11. pilchardman

    pilchardman Dances With Penguins

    I'm not sure what the entity you call Wales consists of.

    I can tell you about the entity people call Scotland, and in my view no such entity exists now, never mind in the future. The cultural heritage of the North East - the bothy ballads, skirlie-in-the-pan, Doric. None of these are mine. There are many cultures within Scotland. And, I assume, Wales. My sympathy is more with the Liverpudlian worker than with the Aberdeen landowner.

    I'd like to see the break up of the UK, yes. But not into substates that have no more reality than "Britain".
     
  12. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    You forget the metanarrative. The En-ger-land racism evinced by those who hate asians moving into their area is the chauvenistic, aggressive ethnic racism of the oppressor towards the oppressed - kick 'em when they're down style. The 'racism' you claim to have weeded out of my statements is that of the oppressed against the oppressor - a hearty fatigue with the ongoing takeover of my country by another nation. A takeover whose roots go back centuries. You're very wrong, mate.
     
  13. pilchardman

    pilchardman Dances With Penguins

    I made no such claim. And neither would I.
     
  14. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    Sorry, Pilchardman. I was replying to BuzzSw9's post - should have made myself clearer.
     
  15. Hollis

    Hollis Bloody furious

    Surely the greater process is that of on-going mobility of people within and between nations. D'you really think there's a need for seperate Welsh 'enclaves' as you suggest, is Welsh culture not strong enough co-exisit like the numerous other cultures do in England?
     
  16. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    Judging by the ongoing decline of the language, no.
     
  17. Hollis

    Hollis Bloody furious

    But is that really anything to do with English/Scottish etc moving to Wales? Comes back to people seeing beyond the county boundary these days.
     
  18. fanta

    fanta Banned Banned

    What a silly pointless task. Language and culture change and evolve. It is what makes them interesting and exciting. To resist their evolution is futile anyway. Who wants roots anyway? Roots can mean you're stuck in one place or time. Better to be recpetive to different influences and changes. Mix it up.

    Edited to add:

    ern, yesterday:
    [​IMG]
     
  19. rednblack

    rednblack Banned Banned

    i do believe it is possible to have a progressive civic nationalism, i believe that plaid cymru, mebyon kernow etc provide that sort of outlook, i believe that it would be possible to have an equivelent party in england. but i don't see the point, yeah i think that cultural survival is important to some extent, i think it makes things more interesting to live in a multilingual society, to be able to go to different parts of the country where different languages are spoken and both indegionous and immigrant cultures retain some independence. but i do not believe in cutural presevation it is not possible to preserve human cultures in aspic, things move on, languages change, attitudes and customs change. natural evolution is not what happened to celtic culture or many others however there was a systematic attempt to erase them in favour of a ruling class impearialistic one. that is why it is understandable that some militants and others seek various sometimes dodgy methods to defend them.

    that does not change the fact that the problems of most welsh people stem from the fact they are working class and are esentially identical to the problems of english workers.
     
  20. Random

    Random Ethnic nalgocrat

    Cornwal is officially in England. If you looked closer at 'English' identities you'd find they broke up too -- into Cumbrian, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Dorset, etc. identities. When we're looking at threatened communal traditions they are usually as diverse as fuck -- and hard to squeeze into any one 'national' identity.
     
  21. rednblack

    rednblack Banned Banned

    so actually maybe will see the emergence of "county" or regional parties

    ssshh dont tell dr christmas that cornwall is in england ;)
     
  22. bendeus

    bendeus Bellend Tagline Generator

    There is, however, a difference between being receptive and, as you quaintly put it, 'mixing it up' and being annihilated. Rednblack's point is salient, that the decline of 'Celtic' cultures and linguistic traditions were, for the greater part, the result of systematic policies of centuries long cultural genocide on the part of Anglo conquerers (see my blue books post earlier in the thread). The job started by rapacious and racist English elites is now conveniently being finished off by globalisation.

    Following on from your argument, I would contend that you are an apologist for empire, conquest and culture war. Would you extend the same laissez faire attitude towards the North American indians? The aborigine? The Maya? Should they also just sit back ('cos who wants roots anyway?) and allow 'progress' to swallow them whole? Should violent and ethnically based land grabs be excused because the original occupants of those lands are clinging onto outdated and moribund cultures and linguistic traditions, and generally getting in the way of 'interesting and exciting' cultural shifts. If language changes by osmosis that is one thing, if language changes by right of conquest and opression that is entirely different. You sneer at a linguistic group's right to self-determination without any real grasp of the facts. Are you by any chance English?
     
  23. TeeJay

    TeeJay New Member

    Yes - its called the Green Party. I admit there is the current outstanding issue of the Green party in Wales running against Plaid Cymru, but generally it actually cooperates a lot with PC (for example working with Plaid Cymru MPs on the Home Energy Conservation Bill etc) and has recently made an agreement with MK as well. I am a Green party supporter (not currently a paid-up member although I was when I was living in London), but despite this I *still* see a lot of value in people/regions/countries choosing to remain part of the UK and even if I were a paid-up GP member/activist etc I would still be allowed to have my own opinion about various policies, as long as I didn't try and pretend that they were the agreed national GP policy, and as long as they weren't contrary to the basic values of the GP. I believe that belonging to the UN, the EU or the UK doesn't preclude other levels of government and doesn't preclude having stonger local government, comunities or recognition of diverse cultural identites.
     
  24. ernestolynch

    ernestolynch Banned Banned

    Czechoslovakia was 'officially' in Germany in 1940 you prat. Since when have you been a trumpeteer for de jure officialdom?
     
  25. RubberBuccaneer

    RubberBuccaneer Hedd Wyn

    Can i point out that durin the MG campaign, the people burnt out were called 'White settlers' to delibrately distance themselves from any racist claims.
    There were also Welsh peoples homes burnt e.g. from other parts of Wales using them as second homes.

    BTW re OG did you know that Che and Castro were inspired by him?
     
  26. JTG

    JTG Angry about not being able to be an astronaut.

    Well the Wessex Regionalist party is still around innit?

    Not sure I'd want to vote for Lord Bath and his mates though...
     
  27. pilchardman

    pilchardman Dances With Penguins

    Didn't you understand his point, or are you just being obdurate for the fun of it?
     
  28. TeeJay

    TeeJay New Member

    So how is giving your victims a "racial" label suppose to not be racist? Tonight I heard the ("black" Ugandan-born) Rev. John Sentamu - the Bishop of Birmingham - on 'Question Time' denouncing Mugabe as a "racist dictator" for his treatment of white farmers in Zimbabwe. I think these people are a bit confused about what racism actually is.
     
  29. editor

    editor hiraethified

    I have to say that I've seen worse, but it sure was a daft comparison to make.
     
  30. fanta

    fanta Banned Banned

    The Welsh are not and will not be annihilated. Neither is their language. If Welsh ceases to be spoken in the future then so what? It will be replaced by something just as interesting. The same goes for English and any other language spoken where there have been centuries of human interaction.

    There really are other more serious issues to get soooo emotional about.

    I'm not an apologist for anything and I think your weak attempt to draw an analogy of the suffering of Native American Indians, Aboriginies and Maya with the biggest victims in history, er, the Welsh to be risible nonsense.

    Languages change, they always have done and always will. There is nothing wrong with studying and speaking old and/or dying languages, but people should not use these old and/or dying languages to justify their own xenephobia or prejudice should they?

    Am I English? There is no such thing really.

    We are a bastardised race.

    We are all mongrels.

    We are not pedigrees or pure.

    We've been mixed up and thank God for it too!

    We have Celtic, African Indo-European blood running through our veins.

    Our genes are a kaleidoscope of human kind.

    In our cities we speak up to fourteen languages - not just fucking one pal!

    For these reasons I think we're great!

    (and you're probably okay too :) )
     

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