Yeah good point however so things I would like to contribute to this thread. I think everyone on this thread would aggree with a certain perspective of nationalism is good for one's sense of self and can be bad if it spills over for intolerance of others or particularly towards the "English" if your'e scotish,welsh or Irish.
Whilst there is plenty of reasons to bitch about what the English did to the Celts who lived on this Island and in Ireland it can get confused by the simple fact that maybe the only sad fact of the thing is that the native languages of this country were wiped out generally except for small pockets in the north west of Scotland,West coast of Ireland and the southwest of Ireland and in Wales.Cornish and Manx is gone forever and so is a entire history of people who lived in this land.
However, what really gets my goat is the revivalist's who enforce it on others as part of a national obligation.
For instance I am a native Gaelic speaker for Ireland yep Gaelic first English learnt while at school. In Ireland an Irish American Dev a Laire made Irish compulsory in schools in the 1930's and it is continued to this day. As my grandmother used to say its the same type of people which tried to stamp out gaelic speaking are the same people trying to enforce it.
However, instead of reviving it they have put most people totally off it as a result.
As for the vitrol comment that the Irish leaders were not affected and were used to defeat the Welsh is fucking nonsense.
For a start the Irish system composed of elected kings and queens yep even in the middle ages and earlier.
The Irish as a result had to learn and I mean everyone to ethier read, write or a skill to contribute to the clans.
The laws were called the "Brehon" laws whilst the normans with the right of elder sons refered to their "common law".
The situation was such a headache for queen Liz the first cause her favourites were not elected as the Ard Na Ri or high king of Ireland .Grainne Maol a chieftain from Galway was chosen to be the Ard Na Ri.
Anyway Ireland has written historical records dating back to the 3rd century and some familes have oral traditions.
Anyway... history dates to note. 1688 the Irish under Patrick Starsfield defeated the English finally in a victory where the English promised to withdraw ... Since The English had a reputation for keeping their word the armies of the chieftains disbanded.
The English returned in a year and imposed the penal laws of 1691 where anyone caught reading or writing was killed.
Nethier was outward display of native culture.
The chieftain the ruling familes fled to the basque region of spain which they traded with frequently.
In subsequent battles for other foreign nations the regiments were dubbed
"The wild geese" which relates to the tale of the children of lir in gaelic which was a metaphor for being forced from your own land.
They (the ordinary native Irish) were only allowed to eat the new foodstuff imported from the Americans from Sir walter Raleigh.. The potato.
These laws were only removed in 1849. After the potato famine in which over 4 million ethier died or emmigrated mainly to America.
In the beginning of the twentieth century.The fight for independence was caused by the Import of the "black and tans" which were convicts of britain given arms and told to quell the Irish.
They raped, maimed and killed without being accountable and many families in Ireland can tell you about events which today would be called genocide.
So finally I come to another point that unfortuately for some people and I mean provisionals cannot move on and in fact I find them insulting cause they take nationalism and nation grievances and perpetuate more trouble for the Irish.
But unfortunately the history taught in Britain is not balanced. You don't get an empire by being nice and often you have to be brutal to dissidents within your own borders which is what happend to the Scots, the welsh and the Irish but ... lets all move on shall we and take people as we find and not judge the person in front of us by their history ....
