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Welsh govt introduces measures to curb second homes and short-term holiday accommodation

littlebabyjesus said:
'are Welsh speaking' ?

'originally from Aberdaron' ?

There are some dodgy assumptions flying around there in the irrelevant details of these people's stories. I agree with the principle, but that's a dodgy way of selling it.
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Agreed - there's some impressive dog-whistling going on.

Imagine if this was in England, and one/two of the 'good' examples had 'English speaking' in the text, and the 'bad' ones didn't?
 
kebabking said:
Agreed - there's some impressive dog-whistling going on.

Imagine if this was in England, and one/two of the 'good' examples had 'English speaking' in the text, and the 'bad' ones didn't?
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It doesn't actually mention if the 'bad ones' speak Welsh or not. Or indeed the if the other 'good one' does.
 
editor said:
It doesn't actually mention if the 'bad ones' speak Welsh or not. Or indeed the other 'good one.'
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Come on, you're not defending that aspect of it, surely?

Cerys is a Welsh-speaking solicitor who lives in Manchester. Originally from Aberdaron, she is looking to buy a holiday home for herself and her family to enjoy time during the holidays in the countryside she grew up in. She has a permanent home.

Planning permission will have to be obtained

Except they don't say that. And it's not an accident.
 
How will they know that Sophie is buying a second home? If it's a private purchase off the existing owner surely she just won't tell them unless someone is going to come round regularly to see if any lights are on.
Even if she does tell them and apply for planning permission so what? It's rather hard to see how they can refuse to give it. Sorry but we've already had this year's quota of 2nd homers apply again in Jan.
It's just making her jump through one more hoop in the hope she wil give up but in the end she will still price out Siwan and Bryn unless she is planning on becoming their landlady.
I can understand local frustrations and understand their desire to do something but at the end of the day the only way the housing shortage in Wales can be solved is the same and only way it can be solved in Cornwall, Birmingham and even London. Build loads and loads of council houses and at the moment I don't see any sign that is going to happen.
 
Sorry but we've already had this year's quota of 2nd homers apply again in Jan.
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Probably something like that, yeah. Why not?

There are already various differences in tax rates, etc, for second homes - capital gains tax when selling it is a biggie. The govt already knows when people are buying/selling second homes.

I'm all in favour of restrictions on second homes fwiw.
 
In a way, I can understand the problem and I do sympathise ... But {there's always a but} one size does not fit all.

My [late] father owned a home near Porthmadog jointly with my brother - but not me [I own my own home, in Northumberland].
When Dad died, the house passed into the sole ownership of my brother.
Currently, he lives & works in Birmingham - where he rents a shoebox aka a ground floor flat.
However, he still spends almost all his annual leave, and many of his rest days - when his work pattern puts more than three days off together, which happens at least once every four to five weeks - working as a volunteer in various capacities on a certain North Wales Narrow Gauge Railway ...
Sadly, that commitment doesn't matter to some of the anti-second home owner rules and the only place he actually owns is classed as a second home because he doesn't spend quite enough nights there for it to be his full residence.

He also does his best to support local businesses and shops. He buys food locally etc etc.
Unlike some 2nd home owners / Airbnb visitors who stock up with food before they travel - what a way waste of fuel, lugging all that weight with them ! Especially as there are several well-known supermarkets in Porthmadog, Pwllhelli and so on ...
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Probably something like that, yeah. Why not?

There are already various differences in tax rates, etc, for second homes - capital gains tax when selling it is a biggie. The govt already knows when people are buying/selling second homes.

I'm all in favour of restrictions on second homes fwiw.
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So what happens then is there a glut of houses being sold off in the first half of year with those that aren't then taken off again for the second half to try again the year after.
The council is implying perhaps not deliberately that the problem is entirely down to incoming buyers whereas it is at least partly due to sellers as well chasing the best price and with the needs of the local community coming a very distant second. Wanna bet that a lot of those people selling their homes to 2nd home owners are justifying it to themselves that they need the money whilst bemoaning how their kids can't somewhere affordable locally?The council can't dictate who someone sells their house too. They mean well I'll give them that but they are trying to buck market trends and that is not going to work.
 
MickiQ said:
So what happens then is there a glut of houses being sold off in the first half of year with those that aren't then taken off again for the second half to try again the year after.
The council is implying perhaps not deliberately that the problem is entirely down to incoming buyers whereas it is at least partly due to sellers as well chasing the best price and with the needs of the local community coming a very distant second. Wanna bet that a lot of those people selling their homes to 2nd home owners are justifying it to themselves that they need the money whilst bemoaning how their kids can't somewhere affordable locally?The council can't dictate who someone sells their house too. They mean well I'll give them that but they are trying to buck market trends and that is not going to work.
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So people who are offered life changing money are suddenly expected to give a shite about having for years shit services they mostly can't make use of. Shit local stuff for somewhere they want to leave because of it and make things more convenient? Yes they still can't afford stuff locally for their kids. 1 house doesn't equal 2 unless you move or downsize or both.

We have the same issue here with people bidding way over from hcol areas. Am i gonna blame the retiree downsizing and chucking their kids some money before it's nicked by a care home? Or wanting to move closer to kids who already had to move? No. Policy should dictate this shit.

Wales model isn't perfect but it's better than everyone else's so far. I got told the cornish were to blame for selling houses huge x more than they were bought for with the local wages shit and retirement crap considered transport and local amenities. Remote is the only way I could buy in Cornwall, that plus a council reduction I'm opposed to and an inheritance, then it's twice my rent lol. How's that sustainable for anyone? Housing prices are insane.
 
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StoneRoad said:
In a way, I can understand the problem and I do sympathise ... But {there's always a but} one size does not fit all.

My [late] father owned a home near Porthmadog jointly with my brother - but not me [I own my own home, in Northumberland].
When Dad died, the house passed into the sole ownership of my brother.
Currently, he lives & works in Birmingham - where he rents a shoebox aka a ground floor flat.
However, he still spends almost all his annual leave, and many of his rest days - when his work pattern puts more than three days off together, which happens at least once every four to five weeks - working as a volunteer in various capacities on a certain North Wales Narrow Gauge Railway ...
Sadly, that commitment doesn't matter to some of the anti-second home owner rules and the only place he actually owns is classed as a second home because he doesn't spend quite enough nights there for it to be his full residence.

He also does his best to support local businesses and shops. He buys food locally etc etc.
Unlike some 2nd home owners / Airbnb visitors who stock up with food before they travel - what a way waste of fuel, lugging all that weight with them ! Especially as there are several well-known supermarkets in Porthmadog, Pwllhelli and so on ...
Click to expand...
It’s still someone who only needs one home occupying two though so still part of that problem.

I’m not a fan of landlords but at least if it was rented out at a fair rate then someone would be living there.
 
I'd tell my native Welsh speaking relatives and friends but they can speak English fine.
 
Looby said:
It’s still someone who only needs one home occupying two though so still part of that problem.

I’m not a fan of landlords but at least if it was rented out at a fair rate then someone would be living there.
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uh, no .... I should have added that he intends to "retire" there in a couple of years time - when he does so, he'll be leaving whichever shoebox he's renting in B'ham.
And, as I said, he does need both, it's not a luxury / holiday home, as when he's there, he works on a local ng railway ... and is not taking up local B&B rooms, of which there is a shortage.

Oh, and I stay in the welsh house for varying periods of time ...
as do a number of other volunteers, also to avoid taking up the locally scarce B&B ...
and renting it out 'officially' is impractical as it needs a rewire - currently a work in progress - and other modifications to bring it up to code.
 
SpookyFrank said:
Yes we mustn't upset the market or it might decide to stop, um, fucking us all to death.
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That's dumb even for you Frank, you can't upset the market and it can't decide to do or not do anything. It is simply the end result of people acting in what they perceive to be their own interests, needs or wants.
 
Spymaster said:
If Siwan and Bryn didn't speak Welsh, would they need planning permission?
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Look, it's not some neo-Nazi type nationalist statement. They could have left it out. But I understand why it's there, even if it looks clumsy/neo-Nazi from the outside. There is a big push here on the language, for reasons of cultural importance and political history I hope I don't have to explain to you, or anyone. It is used there to emphasise Welshness. Because this is basically about (mostly) English people moving in with second homes (and increasingly air b&b) pushing up house prices making it unaffordable to the locals.

When you've had your country and culture subjugated for hundreds of years it's not unreasonable to fight back a bit. And people here picking on that one line about speaking Welsh, and not understanding the context (or wilfully, disingenuously ignoring the context) aren't really getting the point, or don't want to get the point, of what this is all about.
 
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planetgeli said:
Because the whole thing is about, basically, English people moving in with second homes (and increasingly air b&b) pushing up house prices making it unaffordable to the locals.
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This is obviously nonsense because Branwen isn't English, she's a Welsh local BTL lord.
 
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planetgeli said:
Second homes, air bandb, - mostly being done by English people because, the market.
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If English people are the problem, and, as you argue, this advert consequently mentioned the Welsh language in one example, why did they use the example of a Welsh local BTler? Kind of undermines your rationale for them mentioning the language doesn't it?
 
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