Welcome home Craig Bellamy

Discussion in 'football' started by badlands, Aug 15, 2010.

  1. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    Yeah. And Newcastle, even with their much bigger fanbase, gate receipts, merchandising take etc, would still have eventually gone bust paying those wages. Are you really proferring "we're more financially responsible than Newcastle United" as an argument as to why this is not a massive risk?

    Newcastle are certainly not typical of the division, they were a premier league club, paying premier league wages, who were in the CH for 1 season! You're paying Bellers big money (bigger than any other player you have at the club, that's for sure), that you don't have, on a wing and a prayer. Shouldn't you be at least, at least a little concerned!?
     
  2. London_Calling

    London_Calling Pleasant and unpatronising

    That argument/justification makes no sense at all.

    Apart from the points made, Newcastle's average was 23,000 more than Cardiff's - mostly season ticket holders who paid up front, they had contracts they couldn't get out of, they had the parachute payment, they bounced straight back . . . it's too daft to bother with.
     
  3. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    notice the words "nightmare" and "wage meltdown" as well.
     
  4. Proper Tidy

    Proper Tidy I killed a man

    Harsh. Not just one of the worst Brasilian footballers, but one of the worst Brasilians ever.

    Cacapa, you shit Brasilian.
     
  5. RaverDrew

    RaverDrew self-banned for a bit R.I.P.

    They'd almost certainly have clauses written into their contracts to receive reduced wages in the event of relegation.

    Newcastle also sell-out a 52,000 seater stadium each week, along with the added merchandise etc generated from their large and loyal fan base.
     
  6. stupid dogbot

    stupid dogbot Haughty and Superior

    :D
     
  7. badlands

    badlands the mercy seat

    ok, this has been linked to, but here it is in full

    (sorry for C&P, but its important)



    The amount of stick thrown in Cardiff City's direction in the last 24 hours has been shocking.

    Not everyone is against us. We have received some goodwill messages from Man City fans, some reasonable and balanced coverage from some of the tabloids, broadsheets and tv/radio stations but there is an underlying current of resentment about our signing of Craig Bellamy. Some of the comments from the more gutter radio shows have been jaw-dropping.

    I think there is an element of disbelief from the EPL that we took one of their star players. An element of jealously from the Football League that we have made ourselves favourites for promotion but moreso the thing that wrankles them is that we were close to going bust a few weeks ago and now we have signed a player who reportedly earns around £90K a week.

    Instead of looking at our current situation or what we have been trying to achieve we get backpage headlines like the one from the Daily Express "How can a club which has faced 4 winding-up orders sign £85,000 a week Craig Bellamy".

    Well if they did some resaearch they'd find that Man City are paying most of his wages. Cardiff are paying a percentage. All perfectly legal and within the loan rules. Loan moves happen all the time. Parent clubs tend to pay the bulk of the wages. Same thing happening here. No need to threaten his registration or to throw ones toys out of the pram.

    The carefully planned outburst from the Motherwell Chairman shocked the football world nearly as much as Bellany signing for us. He called us cynical for not paying our bills. Actually, I agree to an extent. We should not still be owing Motherwell. We are tackling these debts and that one in paticular has not yet been fully resolved. The matter should be sorted soon but it does beg the question of the hypocrisy of a man who saw his airline company go bust leaving thousands stranded and out of pocket, click here, and the same chap was at the helm of Motherwell when they went into administration leaving their creditors with just 15p in the pound, click here.

    Cardiff City did not take the easy option of administration and a chance to get away without paying everyone but instead chose (thanks to the new investment from Malaysia and from current directors) to tackle the debts head on.

    Portsmouth, the tax man claims, owes £37m to HMRC. Cardiff City owe then the July payment at most. Just about all the footballing debts have been settled by the new reigime at the CCS. The random borrowings by Peter Ridsdale are being sorted, the debts to other clubs are being covered. The players/staff wages are all upto date and the tax man has dismissed his intended high court action because we have delivered the money we promised.

    We still have a debt, mostly to Langston (Sam Hammam's interest) but it's a fraction of the debt owed by some top Premier League sides but crucially it's a debt we are facing and not bailing out from by taking the administration route.

    Maybe the Football League should be investigating Crystal Palace who went into admin, have offered their creditors a couple of pence in the pound and are now about to sign Edgar Davids. They should still be investigating how Portsmouth can get away with settling already mega rich players bonuses while leaving the tax man to fight for scraps.

    Cardiff's signing of Craig Bellamy has close on paid for itself already. We don't know the exact amount Cardiff have to pay in wages but it's thought to be £20K a week. 24 hours after his signing we sold nearly 4,000 shirts @ £40 each, 500 season tickets @ £300 each and the gate will be increased by about 5,000 @ £20 each on Saturday.

    Roughly that's about £400,000 on the back of him signing. 20 weeks of wages brought in from the first 24 hours of business.

    The man pays for himself. Cardiff have not paid a penny in transfer fees this summer. Season long loans for Olofinjana, Koumas, Drinkwater and Bellamy. Free transfer for Tom Heaton. Upto 10 players leaving who are now off the wage-bill. At the same time debts settled by re-structure or in some cases the exchange of debt to shares in the club.

    The football world should be applauding the efforts of TG, Vincent Tan, Steve Borley etc for their dedication to honouring what we owe while at the same time making Cardiff City Football Club a force in the Championship and hopefully becoming a Premier League by the end of the season.

    Cardiff City have made a statement of intent this week. We've shocked the football establishment and they don't like it.

    Keep them stones in your pockets people.
     
  8. RaverDrew

    RaverDrew self-banned for a bit R.I.P.

    This quote is uninformed and misleading nonsense. :rolleyes:

    Which quite frankly makes me doubt the rest of what is written above. :facepalm:
     
  9. badlands

    badlands the mercy seat

    enlighten me
     
  10. RaverDrew

    RaverDrew self-banned for a bit R.I.P.

    a) We never put ourselves into admin, we were put there by a hostile creditor (Agilo) who thought they were being smart initially but ended up losing out massively compared to if they hadn't put us into admin. TORY scum too :mad:

    b) We offered the creditors 2p in the pound and EVERY SINGLE ONE accepted it apart from HMRC who always oppose CVA's for political reasons.

    c) The football league have no grounds whatsoever to investigate us. In fact our new owners have just passed the fit and proper persons test last night. :)

    d) We're not trying to splash the cash around while still being in debt. Cardiff still owe footballing debts to at least one other English club who were so fed up of being fed lies about when they were going to see their money that they sold it on to a debt collection agency, if they hadn't then you would still be under an embargo right now FACT.

    e) Edgar Davids will not be costing us anything remotely like Bellamy. He's not joining the club for financial reasons, he will be on a small pay as you play deal that will be costing the club far less than the average Championship player.

    So that's that cleared up.

    Good luck with Bellamy btw. I hope the gamble pays off for you.
     
  11. tommers

    tommers Yourdisco needs you

    :D:facepalm:
     
  12. ddraig

    ddraig dros ben llestri

    piss off!

    cheers badlands and too fukin right!
     
  13. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    Bristol City 1982
    Charlton 1984
    Middlesbrough 1986
    Wolves 1987
    Tranmere 1987
    Newport County 1989
    Walsall 1990
    Northampton 1992
    Aldershot 1992
    Maidstone 1992
    Hartlepool 1994
    Barnet 1994
    Exeter 1994, 2003
    Gillingham 1995
    Doncaster 1997
    Millwall 1997
    Bournemouth 1997, 2008
    Darlington 1997, 2009
    Chester 1998, 2009
    Hereford 1998
    Portsmouth 1999, 2010
    Crystal Palace 1999, 2010
    Oxford Utd 1999
    Swindon 2000, 2002
    Hull 2001
    QPR 2001
    Chesterfield 2001
    Leicester 2002
    Barnsley 2002
    Carlisle 2002
    Notts County 2002
    Bury 2002
    Bradford 2002
    Port Vale 2002
    Lincoln City 2002
    Swansea City 1986, 2002
    York 2002
    Halifax Town 2002, 2008
    Derby 2003
    Ipswich 2003
    Huddersfield 2003
    Oldham 2003
    MK Dons 2003
    Wimbledon 2003
    Wrexham 2004
    Cambridge 2005
    Rotherham 2006, 2008
    Leeds United 2007
    Boston United 2007
    Southampton 2008
    Luton 2008
    Stockport 2009

    Anyone know what this list is which I have nicked off the Cardiff website?

    Its a list of all the clubs who have been in administration and walked away from their debts, unlike Cardiff City who are standing up to their responsibilities and paying all their bills in full, not just some p in the £ settlement. We may be slow but we will pay everyone in the end.

    So if your club is on the list please dont come here preaching to us!
     
  14. RaverDrew

    RaverDrew self-banned for a bit R.I.P.

    You missed one off that list...

    Cardiff City 2011 ;)

    What you fail to mention is that many of those clubs were put into admin by hostile and aggressive creditors NOT BY CHOICE. In fact Cardiff have come VERY close to having the same thing happen to them, escaping by the skin of their teeth very recently.

    I'd be very careful if I were you about taking the moral high-ground over these matters.

    And I wouldn't give it all that holier than thou bullshit about paying off all your debts in full either. I know for a fact that Charlton for one got so pissed off at being lied to about receiving the Mark Hudson transfer instalments, that they sold the balance off to a debt collection agency. Lucky for you, as it then no longer becomes a football debt for which you can have an automatic transfer embargo slapped on you. How much else of your considerable debt has been renegotiated to reduced amounts or being thrashed out in court rooms ?
     
  15. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    my club is on that list. You know why? Because we spent money we didn't have based on the assumption that everything would go exactly to plan. Something that put our football club in the shit until we got bought out by some dodgy ticket tout. That's why spending money you don't have is a shit idea.

    Oh, and when we did it, we'd just finished 5th in the premier league and qualified for the UEFA Cup. We, not unreasonably figured that even if year 2 in the prem wouldn't go so well, that we could expect to stay in the top flight. Football doesn't work like that. We were relegated the next season and ended up stuck with players on big salaries (not as much as you're paying Bellamy mind). That's what happens in football. You take risks, 9 times out of 10 it turns out like that.

    It's not preaching. It's just commenting on the well trod path - club takes big financial risk, it goes wrong, fans blame directors. You lot know the situation at cardiff, you know this is a risk, don't come crying if it goes wrong.
     
  16. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce


    If you really, genuinely believe what you've written above, you're seriously delusional.

    1) premier league clubs have bigger debts because their income dwarfs yours
    2) look, I'm not throwing stones because I hate Cardiff or Cardiff fans. What I hate is the way fans never try and make their clubs behave financially responsibily. You've got massive debts and you've just signed a load of new players, all of whom will be at the top of your wage structure. Never mind if they get money from elsewhere - you were losing money before, and you've just put shitloads of players ON your wage bill.
    3) wouldn't trust the extra sales figures. Firstly, there's no way of telling how many of those you would've sold anyway. Has anyone compared them with similar figures for last season? Anyway, you're just adding them up - what about taxes? what about admin? how much of itt is pure profit? It's just figures made up to justify what you want to do anyway.

    A simple question.

    Do you literally have no concerns about this whatsoever?

    (given the mess you're already in, given the people running your club)

    If you don't, you're either stupid, or not really bothered if your club survives or not.
     
  17. RaverDrew

    RaverDrew self-banned for a bit R.I.P.

    tbf Cardiff now have wealthy backers who could probably take the financial hit if it all did go wrong and they didn't make it to the Premiershit. Hell, they could more than likely splash even more cash if they needed to. Cardiff have a new stadium and considerable potential to make a decent profit if the deal does work out. The Bellamy deal is a risk to an extent but I don't see it doing them too much damage, and it's a pretty unique situation that would be too good to pass up.
     
  18. Proper Tidy

    Proper Tidy I killed a man

    Well, I for one want Bellers and Caardeff to do well.
     
  19. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    Not signing Bellamy would be financially irresponsable.

    You are forgeting a basic football business fact.

    Good squad = Better results = Better attendances = Greater earnings with which to pay our depts with.
    Bad squad = Worse results = worse attendances = Less earnings with which to pay our debts.

    It would have been finacially irresponsable not to have strengthened our squad.

    Personally I think signing Ledley would have been financially irresponsable as that would have been:

    Expensive wages for good player rather than Expensive wages for excelent player.

    With Bellamy we will be paying Expensive wages for an Exceptional player (better than excelent as far as this league is concerned) who will not only improve results (aiding attendances) but will also bring in additional money elsewhere.

    We have done what we needed to do (strengthen our squad) in an incredbly high value for money way.
    If we'd managed to have singed someone else on a free transfer at £10k a week (half the cost of Bellamy) it would not have resulted in half as much long term financial value as signing Bellamy. No where near half.

    Cardiff doing badlyr doesn't benefit any of our creditors. Cardiff doing well does.
     
  20. tommers

    tommers Yourdisco needs you

    Why do you give a fuck what other clubs or "the footballing establishment" think of you?

    "We've shocked the footballing establishment and they don't like it"

    get over yourselves. :D
     
  21. RaverDrew

    RaverDrew self-banned for a bit R.I.P.

    We'll see your Bellamy... and raise you a Davids :D

    [​IMG]
     
  22. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    How is a 37 year old has been a raise on a Premiership player at the top of his game?
     
  23. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    I wonder what odds you could have got a month ago on Bellamy and Davids facing each other in the championship this season!
     
  24. Proper Tidy

    Proper Tidy I killed a man

    Edgar Davis was a great player about ten years ago
     
  25. RaverDrew

    RaverDrew self-banned for a bit R.I.P.

    Class is permanent, he's the same age as Giggs and still has more skill in his little toe than Bellamy could ever dream about. ;)

    He'll bring a hell of a lot to our young squad even if he barely gets a game, and like Bellamy will help sell a lot of merchandise and put bums on seats. Already looks as if his signing has convinced a couple of our better players to renew their contracts.
     
  26. Proper Tidy

    Proper Tidy I killed a man

    Davids hasn't been any good since his brief loan to Barca.
     
  27. Lo Siento.

    Lo Siento. Second As Farce

    Prosecution rests. Seriously, read this again. It's a manifesto for bankrupting a football club: spend more money, get better players, pay debts. Crack addicts have better lines of reasoning.

    "Not signing Bellamy would have been financially irresponsible" :D :D sad. sad but funny.

    Oh, and if their backers are so wealthy, where is Motherwell's money? If the money is there, write a fucking cheque. If they haven't written it yet, it's because it's not there.
     
  28. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    Have you never heard the phrase you have to speculate to accumulate?

    Obviously there are limits. Signing a whole squad of £20k a week players would be plain stupid. Signing 1 amazing one isn't.

    At the end of last season it looked worryingly like we wouldn't strengthen our squad, have a load of players with only a year left on their contracts, not get promoted, lose them, have a shite squad for next season, probably get relegated and that would be the end of Cardiff city. Bust in 2-3 years.

    Now we have some hope of promotion which would end our problems.

    Basically Sam Hamman spent us into the shit. If we do nothing we'll drown in it. That inescapable. There is no way to pay debts and run a club on the cheap and stay up. You can do two out of those three but not all three at the same time. You'd merely be delaying the inevitable.

    So the alternative to drowning in it is a shit or bust gamble. Invest to stem the tide and hope for promotion. Thats what we are doing and luckily we've been given an opportunity to invest in such a way that will make more difference than any other possible investment. Its logically and mathematically the best course of action.
     
  29. strung out

    strung out (",)

    blackpool anyone?
     
  30. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Does it mean it you have to speculate recklessly to accumulate?
     

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