Do you know what, fuck it, I'm just going to say it. Yes.free spirit said:Does this revolutionising stuff always have to be so serious though?
This isn't a fucking game.
Do you know what, fuck it, I'm just going to say it. Yes.free spirit said:Does this revolutionising stuff always have to be so serious though?
Can I have some of your crack?winjer said:Given your [Taxamo's] sub-Bonehead position on borders & immigration
free spirit said:Does this revolutionising stuff always have to be so serious though?
even the boys in ww1 managed to have a game of footie in no-mans land, surely the space hijackers are allowed the odd game of anticap vs capitalist cricket without the thought police jumping on them.
or must we all go round being miserable fuckers until the revolution delivers us into the anarchist utopia?
free spirit said:Does this revolutionising stuff always have to be so serious though?
even the boys in ww1 managed to have a game of footie in no-mans land, surely the space hijackers are allowed the odd game of anticap vs capitalist cricket without the thought police jumping on them.
or must we all go round being miserable fuckers until the revolution delivers us into the anarchist utopia?
for a very popular anti-military stunt. There isn't silly wing and a serious wing, its the same people. Its also massively helpful doing the more fun stuff cos then whenever anyone starts thinking that anarchism is a wacky lifestyle full of pranks and parties you can step in to set them straight - which we couldn't do if we just boycotted anything that might look a bit naff.Raw SslaC said:Maybe the money for the tank would have been better spent on the No Borders Camp and/or some other venture. I always think those who have access to cash should always try spread the wealth.
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Is there not a bit of a contradiction here ... something is only done if the group agree ... that's, er, just like how society tries to work, but on a smaller (and hence more responsive) scale ... and they are your cronies ...Bristly Pioneer said:Anyone can suggest an idea, and once it's been knocked about by people it either gets done or rejected. The projects themselves aim to question authority, actively change heirarchy within our city, ridicule the powers that be and promote a society where people take an active role in their cities without having to go via the government or some other cronies to take action.

detective-boy said:Is there not a bit of a contradiction here ... something is only done if the group agree ... that's, er, just like how society tries to work, but on a smaller (and hence more responsive) scale ... and they are your cronies ...![]()

Neither. It's a question.Boogie Boy said:Is this an attempt at juvenile provocation or are you just being wilfully stupid?
It's a question of scale, isn't it? A small group is able to consult everyone (literally) and, if everyone has a view, to hear everyone and then everyone knows their view has at least been heard ... but you don't have to get very big before that simply becomes impracticable and reprsentatives have to be elected ... and then people start complaining about "their" representatives not representing their views (when the best they could ever do is try and represent a majority view). This applies to everything, not just politics (as anyone who has ever tried to be the group representative at anything will agree, I'm sure!).Bristly Pioneer said:it perhaps is just how society tries (but fails) to work, seeing as MY elected cronies seem to do very little of what I would like them to do, infact often quite the opposite.
That's funny, cause it was Raw's description of your position on No Borders that I was referring to in the earlier post, perhaps he's misinformed?Taxamo Welf said:How much closer to home do you want to hear it from Winjer?
But never from a position of honest engagement (c.f. the libcom thread you posted up after that Lebanon assembly last year), so why bother?For my sins i one of the tiny few who actually does the "direct action" "protest" and the political organisation thing.
To what end? If it's all about self-promotion, where has it got the SH?Raw SslaC said:I think the events they organise is more about themselves than the issues they say they are promoting - self-promoting is the word what I'm looking for.
'stage managed' - by who?Thirdly, unlike UHC in Manc who are political people but produce art/design/communication - SH are arty people who produce stage managed political protests.
What access to cash? The money for the tank was donated specifically for that, are you suggesting we should have lied about what it was going to be used for?I always think those who have access to cash should always try spread the wealth.
detective-boy said:It's a question of scale, isn't it? A small group is able to consult everyone (literally) and, if everyone has a view, to hear everyone and then everyone knows their view has at least been heard ... but you don't have to get very big before that simply becomes impracticable and reprsentatives have to be elected ... and then people start complaining about "their" representatives not representing their views (when the best they could ever do is try and represent a majority view). This applies to everything, not just politics (as anyone who has ever tried to be the group representative at anything will agree, I'm sure!).
I've not really got any major point, by the way, it just struck me as interesting that you described as "quite a bit anarchist" seemed to be of the same template as "ordinary" society.

winjer said:That's funny, cause it was Raw's description of your position on No Borders that I was referring to in the earlier post, perhaps he's misinformed?
But never from a position of honest engagement (c.f. the libcom thread you posted up after that Lebanon assembly last year), so why bother?
winjer said:But never from a position of honest engagement (c.f. the libcom thread you posted up after that Lebanon assembly last year), so why bother?
I'm raising this with you because I can never understand the disconnect between what you say in person, and what you subsequently describe on here, libcom, etc. I totally fail to understand your antipathy towards SH, I can only assume that you have the same misconceptions about who is involved as Raw (cf. 'arty people').Taxamo Welf said:I was actually very concerned to see your treatment at the hands of thr filth recently, and expected to be able to make things up with you forthwith. However after months and months, you are back here to argue with me, of all people, when the points i have made are coming from all corners.
That's a good example, as far as I know you didn't raise any of those concerns in the meeting about the @-block, and you write about it as though you were completely outside of that process. Where's the self-criticism?Just read what i fucking wrote on sackparliament above, jesus.
That's considerably more sensible than what Raw described.My opinion on No Borders is its a shit name, and i don't agree with putting forward open borders as a solution to fuck all under capitalism. I believe that communities should manage themselves, which means they should have a say in hopusing and resource allocation - not the state, not the local council and definitely not a group of lentil weavers shouting NO BORDERS NO NATIONS at them.
I forgot I wrote that, it was uncalled for, and I take it back. However, what Raw described was close to something Griffin would say.Raw would not have described this as 'sub-bonehead'. A bonehead is a nazi skinhead.
there is no gap, imho. I have always given you shit, maybe unfairly, in person about the space invaders. I may well be labouring under misconceptions, but to be honest i can argue on the strength of the posts on this thread alone; You don't need to have met a space invader to join the debate.winjer said:I'm raising this with you because I can never understand the disconnect between what you say in person, and what you subsequently describe on here, libcom, etc. I totally fail to understand your antipathy towards SH, I can only assume that you have the same misconceptions about who is involved as Raw (cf. 'arty people').
the whole thing is a self criticism. There isn't much on where i went wrong in planning, cos i wasn't involved in the planning. I met up with people a couple of times i think, but i always assumed (wrongly) that someone had a plan to revealed on the day. Please note, i call for more of this type of thing at the end. I actually rate the idea of creative protest. I just have some proviso'sThat's a good example, as far as I know you didn't raise any of those concerns in the meeting about the @-block, and you write about it as though you were completely outside of that process. Where's the self-criticism?

Ask me abt this in person...really? Thats all i've ever said on itThat's considerably more sensible than what Raw described.
well cheers.I forgot I wrote that, it was uncalled for, and I take it back.
Taxamo Welf said:My opinion on No Borders is its a shit name, and i don't agree with putting forward open borders as a solution to fuck all under capitalism. I believe that communities should manage themselves, which means they should have a say in hopusing and resource allocation - not the state, not the local council and definitely not a group of lentil weavers shouting NO BORDERS NO NATIONS at them. I have the utmost support for the immigrant defence side of NB, that is crucial. I think the name however is misleading. You want to organise, not destroy: you don't start a group at your workplace called No Money do you?
This position will be laid out in full in article soon.
/QUOTE]
TW,
As someone who has been involved with No Borders for some time (and someone who can't abide lentils) I would be interested in reading the article which details further the position that you propose to outline above. Can you let me know where I (we) can read this, and possibly, hopefully respond to the analysis which you seek to provide?
If necessary, pm me with details?
BB![]()