We all hate R n B right?

[oddworld]

I went and saw Justin Timberlake in concert , I like all of his stuff

 

[Boogie Boy]

Absolutely. I'm happy to engage you in a debate on the relative worth of say, Slayer or Judas Priest over whatever dross is being hyped as the latest rnb sensation. Or I would if I could be bothered.

RNB? What is good for? Little girls on buses showing off to their friends playing that shite on their mp3 enabled mobiles.

Next!

Can I point you in the direction of Soul Brother Records in Putney? Have a look at the web site and perhaps you will get an indication of just how broad the genre is? (Ignore the ridiculous prices in some instances)

And it is worth noting that artists within the genre have rebelled against the drive to produce the 'pop' r'n'b that I assume you are railing against - this was one of the motivating factors behind the emergence of the 'neo-soul' movement in the early to mid 1990's (although many artists first involved in that emergence now seek to distance themselves from it - such as Jaguar Wright) and a desire to move away from the 'Hip Hop soul' movement which had emerged because of (and almost as a reaction against) New Jack Swing.

BB

 

[Negativland]

The commercial hip hop influence.

Too many artists using too few producers.

Stuck up club scene (not necessarily individuals) but every other club night being called Glamorous or such like....

Quite depressing as I was a huge fan but I haven't heard a record for ages that gave me goosebumps.

I pretty much love the crunk influence on RnB myself, and how Ciara etc. use it to fuck around with macho/feminine perception. And as much as a love the 'Crazy in love' / 'One Thing' soul hits, a lot of my favorite recent stuff has been kind of reworking southern hiphop trends like 1) Cassie - Me & U, 2) Lil Mama - Lip Gloss, 3) Kelis - Blindfold Me

I see what you mean about too few producers, but so long as Polow Da Don keeps it up I'm happy.

 

[Sugarmouse]

I find R and B really boring and cannot listen toit.. it seems to be sound with no substance.
But its just a personal choice.. if everyone hated it it wouldnt exist in the dimensions it does would it...

 

[lights.out.london]

I can usually get something from all genres of music, even if it doesn't rock me (baby). RnB is, perhaps, the exception.

C'mon. It's garbage. Lame, "aspirational", inane and a ploy to steal da kids' pocket money.

I will check out Soul Brother Records as Boogie Boy suggested. I try to have an open mind on new or unfamiliar (to me) genres. Maybe I've just been exposed to shite RnB...but I doubt it.

I'm about to get the 63 bus to Peckham. I'll report back what classics da yoof were listening to on the top deck. And I'm sure we'll see those records selling in 20 years time, just like we see Priest, Maiden, Ramones, Husker Du, Slayer, da Flag et al continuing to sell. Yeah. Right!

 

[Iam]

In fairness, those bands sell about 4 LPs a year mostly, and several of those are to you...

 

[Negativland]

I can usually get something from all genres of music, even if it doesn't rock me (baby). RnB is, perhaps, the exception.

C'mon. It's garbage. Lame, "aspirational", inane and a ploy to steal da kids' pocket money.

 

[Harold Hill]

I pretty much love the crunk influence on RnB myself, and how Ciara etc. use it to fuck around with macho/feminine perception. And as much as a love the 'Crazy in love' / 'One Thing' soul hits, a lot of my favorite recent stuff has been kind of reworking southern hiphop trends like 1) Cassie - Me & U, 2) Lil Mama - Lip Gloss, 3) Kelis - Blindfold Me

I see what you mean about too few producers, but so long as Polow Da Don keeps it up I'm happy.

The only Kelis record that I liked off her last was 80s Joint. Considering the title, I thought it sounded quite fresh.

You hear so many DJs complaining about the lack of records available at the moment too. There are so few club nights about in contrast to the past unless you like hearing commercial stuff alongside 'funky electro house'.

I'm personally hoping the UK does its usual trick of appreciating those unappreciated in the US and thereby creating something as a score of artists become influenced by them. We need it, UK R&B has been pretty crap for years.

 

[Negativland]

That's very true of Amerie, she's not so sucessful in the US. And agreed about 80s Joint!

 

[Negativland]

Of the UK lot, the garage/grime influenced ones are the most fun like No Lay (more grime), Tanya (check I know I luv U), and Ny who doesn't seem to have a myspace

 

[Boogie Boy]

The only Kelis record that I liked off her last was 80s Joint. Considering the title, I thought it sounded quite fresh.

You hear so many DJs complaining about the lack of records available at the moment too. There are so few club nights about in contrast to the past unless you like hearing commercial stuff alongside 'funky electro house'.

I'm personally hoping the UK does its usual trick of appreciating those unappreciated in the US and thereby creating something as a score of artists become influenced by them. We need it, UK R&B has been pretty crap for years.

The UK has never given up its habit of supporting US based artists and music, seen since the early days of 'Northern Soul' right through to the introduction of Electro-Funk and Hip Hop in this country. The 'Northern Soul' scene offers a great example of individuals maintaining the careers of black artists at a time when their music went unappreciated or didn't happen to fit the current market conditions in the US.

I've never hidden my admiration for Omar, even though his material can be highly variable in quality. It is worth remembering that he was cited by Jill Scott and Erykah Badu as an influence on their early work, and this was despite the fact that he has remained largely ignored in the UK, except for those fans who make regular journeys to the Jazz Cafe in London. He has remained consistent in not taking the easy route of signing with a major for as much money as possible and thereby compromising his musical style and sense of self worth and artistic integrity. Here is an example of a UK based artist who is appreciated elsewhere but not really at home (in a strange reversal of the situation outlined above).

Looking at some of the records cited I can't help but wonder if many people here listen to 'R 'n' B except for the records that enter the mainstream charts. If that is indeed the case then you are only going to be exposed to a very narrow representation of modern black music, which is why in an earlier answer I indicated that a visit to Soul Brother Records (either the shop or the virtual web presence) might prove interesting. And the UK fans still do a fantastic job of supporting black music in its many forms - look at the work being done by Dome Records which has consistently championed artists and music which, whilst originally produced in the US, was not released or was put on hold because it didn't fit the demands of the 'current market'. And this isn't music that can be described as 'pop R'n'B'.

Anthony Hamilton anyone?

BB

 

[stavros]

that bloke who did crazy in love and that something track with the cut up drum patterns

Rich Harrison I think did "CIL", and the latter sounds like something Timbaland would do.

On the topic of Timbaland, can we count Missy as RnB? She sort of stands mightily astride the genres of RnB and hip hop like a collosus, not to mention genius. Aaliyah's work with them before she died was superb too, but probably their best RnB single was Genuwine's "Pony", which almost has an air of Dre's G-Funk to its central hook. addictive stuff whatever.

However I think Kelis has probably been the best practitioner of the genre over this decade, moving away from the Neptunes and still continuing her excellence. TLC were also very good, and can we count Prince as RnB?

 

[dlx1]

were the Poll

 

[thefishdead]

Rich Harrison I think did "CIL", and the latter sounds like something Timbaland would do.

On the topic of Timbaland, can we count Missy as RnB? She sort of stands mightily astride the genres of RnB and hip hop like a collosus, not to mention genius. Aaliyah's work with them before she died was superb too, but probably their best RnB single was Genuwine's "Pony", which almost has an air of Dre's G-Funk to its central hook. addictive stuff whatever.

However I think Kelis has probably been the best practitioner of the genre over this decade, moving away from the Neptunes and still continuing her excellence. TLC were also very good, and can we count Prince as RnB?

Nice post. I would really like to know more about the producers behind the music. At award ceremony's and the like the artist are lauded as genius and I think; hang on how much did they actually contribute to creating this tune.

 

[stavros]

I would in no way profess to be an authority on the subject, but by all accounts Timbaland and Missy redefined the sound with Aaliyah and Genuwine. Fellow Viginians the Neptunes followed after. Previous to that there was Babyface, Dallas Austin, Jermaine Dupri and Jam & Lewis. R Kelly, She'kspere and Raphael Saadiq should also be mentioned, the latter two as stemming from the post-Timbaland world. It seems that the majority of the sound comes from the south, Virginia, Houston and particularly Atlanta, with even Lil Jon using "Crunk n B".

 

[futha]

mario - let me love you = class tune

 

[Harold Hill]

The UK has never given up its habit of supporting US based artists and music, seen since the early days of 'Northern Soul' right through to the introduction of Electro-Funk and Hip Hop in this country. The 'Northern Soul' scene offers a great example of individuals maintaining the careers of black artists at a time when their music went unappreciated or didn't happen to fit the current market conditions in the US.

I've never hidden my admiration for Omar, even though his material can be highly variable in quality. It is worth remembering that he was cited by Jill Scott and Erykah Badu as an influence on their early work, and this was despite the fact that he has remained largely ignored in the UK, except for those fans who make regular journeys to the Jazz Cafe in London. He has remained consistent in not taking the easy route of signing with a major for as much money as possible and thereby compromising his musical style and sense of self worth and artistic integrity. Here is an example of a UK based artist who is appreciated elsewhere but not really at home (in a strange reversal of the situation outlined above).

Looking at some of the records cited I can't help but wonder if many people here listen to 'R 'n' B except for the records that enter the mainstream charts. If that is indeed the case then you are only going to be exposed to a very narrow representation of modern black music, which is why in an earlier answer I indicated that a visit to Soul Brother Records (either the shop or the virtual web presence) might prove interesting. And the UK fans still do a fantastic job of supporting black music in its many forms - look at the work being done by Dome Records which has consistently championed artists and music which, whilst originally produced in the US, was not released or was put on hold because it didn't fit the demands of the 'current market'. And this isn't music that can be described as 'pop R'n'B'.

Anthony Hamilton anyone?

BB

I do know Soul Brother - there is a shop down the road from me called crazy Beat which tends to operate the same modus operandi.

In the 80s you used to get Loose Ends, Joyce Sims & Soul II Soul (and even Chas jankel) topping the Billboard R&B charts. Even without US success, there was a buzz around people like Total Contrast that I don't really see with anyone today.

And of the alternatives, there doesn't seem to be much more than background music for bars - nothing that grabs me by the balls.

Nowadays any decent soul vocalist in the UK has to sing over Hed Kandi type records to pay the bills or turn into a cruise ship style crooner like Lemar. Shaun Escoffrey and Terri Walker could and should be stars if Lemar and Amy Winehouse are but when push comes to shove, most of their output just hasn't cut the mustard. And there hasn't been the support there when they have.

Seems to be a Europe wide thing too. Can probably count on one hand the amount of R&B stars from mainland Europe or Australia ever, let alone the last 20 years. Strange as hip hop/house hasn't really had the same trouble.

 

[Appassionata]

Of the UK lot, the garage/grime influenced ones are the most fun like Ny who doesn't seem to have a myspace

yes she does!

It used to be myspace.com/splitendzvol1 but since the new mixtape came out, it's changed to http://www.myspace.com/splitendzvol2

and there is http://www.nysworld.com as well

she's not quite up to the standard of Katie Pearl yet, but she's still good

 

[lights.out.london]

In fairness, those bands sell about 4 LPs a year mostly, and several of those are to you...

As far as I'm aware, the last audited sales figures (albums only and not re-releases and "Nice Price" deals), Judas Priest had shifted 60 million albums.

Not all of them are in my spare room.

 

[Iam]

Are we going to do the old "sales = quality" argument, now, then?

 

[Augie March]

Absolutely. I'm happy to engage you in a debate on the relative worth of say, Slayer or Judas Priest over whatever dross is being hyped as the latest rnb sensation. Or I would if I could be bothered.

RNB? What is good for? Little girls on buses showing off to their friends playing that shite on their mp3 enabled mobiles.

Next!

Little girls obviously can't undertand the subtleties and the complexities of a decent Slayer song.

Bless their tiny little girl brains.

 

[Strumpet]

I like some R n B.

 

[TheDave]

I think it's a bit shit personally. My only exposure to it is by those nice ladies with the hoop earrings on the backs of buses playing it on their mobile and that's more than enough. Can never tell any RNB songs apart. Same beats, similar themes, no originality.

 

[diond]

I do know Soul Brother - there is a shop down the road from me called crazy Beat which tends to operate the same modus operandi.

In the 80s you used to get Loose Ends, Joyce Sims & Soul II Soul (and even Chas jankel) topping the Billboard R&B charts. Even without US success, there was a buzz around people like Total Contrast that I don't really see with anyone today.
.

Fuck me mate, you've almost summed my youth in one post ...almost[/im]

Having said that, unfortunately in my opinion, we (the U.K) have never had anyone who could match Luther, Alexander, Will Downing or Dennis Edwards in my lifetime (1980s+) as class soul solo artists.

I must admit though, until his untimely death, Lynden David Hall was a class act (along side Omar), but British U.K soul artists are, in the main, very largely ignored by Brits and the rest of the world.

edit: I'm obviously talking about a totally different RnB from the original post. (Rhythm and Blues and not Rhythm and Bass.)

 

[blossie33]

I like very little of what I have heard of the so called 'new R&B' (which is not that much to be honest). It sounds like background supermarket music or something they would have played on Radio 2 easy listening years ago
However I am sure there must be some decent stuff around.

 

[Orang Utan]

IIn the 80s you used to get Loose Ends, Joyce Sims & Soul II Soul (and even Chas Jankel) topping the Billboard R&B charts. .

Glad To Know You is a wicked record, as is Ai No Corrida and 3,000,000 Synths - I still hear Glad To Know You out in clubs from time to time

 

[Dj TAB]

On the topic of Timbaland, can we count Missy as RnB? She sort of stands mightily astride the genres of RnB and hip hop......

Good point. I'm not a great fan of RnB. However I wasn't a great fan of Hip-hop, and now I love it. Most of the RnB I like has heavy hip-hop influences, I really like all the mash-ups and bootlegs coming out now.... Missy's BTW....

As with Hip-hop there is a large segment which we shall call "MTV." The contents of MTV are for the most part purely commercial dross. All bling, large-breasted dancers behind an equally large-breasted singer or two miming along to a backing track of annoying vocal acrobatics, whining and moaning. For hip-hop it's much the same with some wax-chested dude doin' his ho' whilst drinkin' cristal..... (there are exceptions to this although I feel they are too rare..)

As with many, if not all genres of music the more you dig the better it gets. If you only buy your tunes from HMV, WHSmith et al you are only likely to discover the surface pond-scum floating on the top. Dig more and you are likely to find talent, however you'll need to go to a proper music emporium and have a listen, get some advice. There is a lot of crap music out there regardless of genre, there's lots of good stuff too, you've just got to find it...

 

[Negativland]

Christ, how indie!

Does this modern anti-commercial RnB even exist though? There are plenty of great less successful artists, and regional US scenes - but there's no definite split from the stuff that gets on TV. (edit: split in quality, intention, reception)

(btw talking about actual RnB not corny mashups done by Brit producers etc.)

 

[lights.out.london]

Little girls obviously can't undertand the subtleties and the complexities of a decent Slayer song.

Bless their tiny little girl brains.

I know. Slayer cover more than "Oo, Baby, baby...".

Arse. Bollocks. Lowest common denominator. RnB - a sign of the times in which we live...

 

[theCIA]

Only someone silly dismisses an entire genre with a wave of the hand.

psytrance?