Watching the Republican mask slip in the US elections, I'm even more ashamed that...

[Dillinger4]

What??

I think, at least partly, that the Taliban's opposition to the Unocal pipelines were one of the reasons behind the US stance towards Afghanistan before 9/11, on top of the embassy bombings and other things.

The Taliban were moving further and further outside the international system.

 

[isitme]

This stuff is all common knowledge tho, the taliban kept their regime propped up with all sorts of dodgy dealings, the people who funded al-qaeida have connections to the CIA, the CIA have people in all these organisations, they trained loads of the people who took over afghanistan, as if they would just leave a bunch of nutcases in charge and not keep an eye on them

Whatever your views on the causes of the attacks and so on, the idea that the CIA would just 'leave the scene' is a bit of a mental one

 

[isitme]

I think you are confusing the earlier Mujahadeen with Al Queda/The Taleban.

but those organisations are connected

 

[isitme]

anyway, sorry for derailing the thread

 

[Dillinger4]

This stuff is all common knowledge tho, the taliban kept their regime propped up with all sorts of dodgy dealings, the people who funded al-qaeida have connections to the CIA, the CIA have people in all these organisations, they trained loads of the people who took over afghanistan, as if they would just leave a bunch of nutcases in charge and not keep an eye on them

Whatever your views on the causes of the attacks and so on, the idea that the CIA would just 'leave the scene' is a bit of a mental one

The CIA did leave the scene, in a sense. If there was any support of the Taliban itself, it was through the ISI

Alhough there is no evidence that the CIA directly supported the Taliban or Al Qaeda, some basis for military support of the Taliban was provided when, in the early 1980s, the CIA and the ISI (Pakistan's Interservices Intelligence Agency) provided arms to Afghans resisting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and the ISI assisted the process of gathering radical Muslims from around the world to fight against the Soviets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

 

[Dillinger4]

but those organisations are connected

But distinct.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I think, at least partly, that the Taliban's opposition to the Unocal pipelines were one of the reasons behind the US stance towards Afghanistan before 9/11, on top of the embassy bombings and other things.

The Taliban were moving further and further outside the international system.

What US stance before 9/11 is this, what did they do?

(sorry bk)

 

[Dillinger4]

What US stance before 9/11 is this, what did they do?

(sorry bk)

Initially supportive, in that it did not criticize some of the things the Taliban did early on, slowly turning critical as Taliban committed larger atrocities, to hostile as the Taliban sheltered the people behind embassy bombings.

Speaking kind of generally, of course.

 

[sleaterkinney]

but those organisations are connected

Not in the way you think, Al Queda grew out of the section of the Mujahadeen which was funded by the saudis and was involved in getting foreign fighters to fight in afganistan. The organisation grew after the soviets had left.

 

[Crispy]

please have another thread about the origins of al quaeda and the involvement of the CIA.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Initially supportive, in that it did not criticize some of the things the Taliban did early on, slowly turning critical as Taliban committed larger atrocities, to hostile as the Taliban sheltered the people behind embassy bombings.

Speaking kind of generally, of course.

So it wasn't purely their opposition to a pipeline then?

 

[Badger Kitten]

please have another thread about the origins of al quaeda and the involvement of the CIA.

cough

It is a really interesting subject, the origins of Al Q, but this is UK politics forum and about Labour and the Rethuglican relationship

 

[Dillinger4]

So it wasn't purely their opposition to a pipeline then?

No, I didn't say that.

I said it was at least part of the reason. Not the only reason.

 

[isitme]

Not in the way you think, Al Queda grew out of the section of the Mujahadeen which was funded by the saudis and was involved in getting foreign fighters to fight in afganistan. The organisation grew after the soviets had left.

but obviously the CIA would have known about this happening, since they were so fond of the Mujahadeen they wouldn't just disappear after the soviets left. It isn't exactly far fetched that they may have had some hand in it given the relationship that the US and UK have with Saudi Arabia

Apologies again to bk, i know it's all drifting a bit into conspiracy territory, but even if you do believe the version of events from the news and so on it isn't hard to make connections......





anyway, gordon brown, what a twat.....

 

[sleaterkinney]

Ok, I'll leave the thread, I don't have much time for conspiraloon stuff anyway.

 

[Dillinger4]

but obviously the CIA would have known about this happening, since they were so fond of the Mujahadeen they wouldn't just disappear after the soviets left. It isn't exactly far fetched that they may have had some hand in it given the relationship that the US and UK have with Saudi Arabia

The point I was trying to make is that the CIA didn't have much direct involvement with Al Queda/The Taliban, due to the hostility of both towards the US, and growing US hostility to them.

 

[Dillinger4]

Ok, I'll leave the thread, I don't have much time for conspiraloon stuff anyway.

What conspiraloon stuff?

 

[isitme]

just started another thread in world politics

 

[Dillinger4]

I am just intrigued as to what is considered conspiraloon stuff here. I can't see it, myself.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I am just intrigued as to what is considered conspiraloon stuff here. I can't see it, myself.

Suggestions that intelligence services can be linked to terror events, despite stuff like evidence.

 

[Dillinger4]

Suggestions that intelligence services can be linked to terror events, despite stuff like evidence.

I never claimed that, and to be honest, I wouldn't.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I never claimed that, and to be honest, I wouldn't.

I dont know what you do mean then and though Im happy to debate the point (probably too happy according to some U75ers) I wont do so here either.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Having said that...this is where the Republican mask nearly slipped a little too much.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/31/cheney-proposal-for-iran-war/

According to Seynour Hersh, Cheney proposed a number of false flag scenarios which means he should be investigated for treason. Not likely though. The piece was intended for The New Yorker but they pulled it, saying it wasnt really news if the ops didnt happen. Never mind the treachery.

Cheney the traitor? Surely not



especially starting at 42s.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Check this, Fox News' Bill O'Rielly manages to find a guest who's even more of a rightwing fruitloop arsehole than he is:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LQPJXcMMHIo

"I've done a lot of research"

 

[shagnasty]

Check this, Fox News' Bill O'Rielly manages to find a guest who's even more of a rightwing fruitloop arsehole than he is:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LQPJXcMMHIo

"I've done a lot of research"

I am sorry to say this but she is the archetypal dumb blond

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Heh, she apparently thinks Saddam Hussain was the ruler of China. Funny

 

[Jeff Robinson]

To be fair to the fish-eyed republico-mutant airhead, I inferred a comma in-between "the guy in China" and "Saddam Hussein".

Got to be fair to Poujadist algae form in a blonde wig and that. Fair and balanced - like fox news.