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Watching the Republican mask slip in the US elections, I'm even more ashamed that...

isitme said:
really?

come on

i wish people had had a general strike about bailing the banks out last month

but considering that the strikes about the tories deliberately putting swathes of the country out of work in the 80s failed, how the fuck would a strike about a war that is just something on telly for most people work?
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In a nutshell. It's all happening 'over there' and it certainly doen't have any real impact on the average person. We are inured to violence and suffering and injustice as we see it happening in films, soap operas, and sadly in real life - but all via the TV.

'Television. Drug of the nation. Breeding ingnorance and feeding radiation'
 
Badger Kitten said:
...we went to war with Bush and the NeoCons.

'Arab', 'Muslim' are used as an insult and synonymous with 'terrorist' and 'enemy'. 'Spreading the wealth' and 'socialist' is also seen as an insult. And wanting the sick to have healthcare is seen as dangerous. The naked racism and fear-mongering, the belicose rhetoric, the lies, the smears, the hate, is sickening.Tihe Friedmanesque freemarketeeting fundementalism, the religious wack-jobbery, it is looking more and more demented now the party is fighting for survival and the gloves are off

And this party, this President is what Blair wanted us to stand 'shoulder to shoulder' with?

I was always against the war, I was always horrified by the Patriot Act and the blatant shredding of liberties in the name of 'preserving freedom'.

But looking at it all implode now, I can't for the life of me see how Labour ever managed to get away with selling this crap without being chased out of Westminster with pitchforks by angry voters.

How the hell did they get away with it? How did a nominally left wing party manage to get into bed with this idealogy and not get called out on it?

Sorry, just needed to rant.
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In my view it was a hustle, and the members of Parliament probably felt grateful for the conceit of not starting the fighting til after the UK Commons vote. The (Iraq)war was going to happen any way and was always about the theatre of being seen to be influential. Where it went wrong or where the spin doctors got ahead of themselves was Claire Shorts resignation. The moral case against action had been amply voice by Robin Cook's but was unheeded for want of a better word for "pragmatism". Yet it was Shorts role in development was a vital interface to that 'pragmatism', yet her resignation just ended up as 'well she's no Robin Cook' and the notion of Saddam still being there without UK involvement- which with the greatest of respect for the guys who did it, is bollocks Baghdad would have fallen in the same number of days.
Afghanistan is a different war, one I can see the justifications for. Though as things have mutated over time I would reckon the need for negotiation with an enemy that originates in anti corruption .
 
teqniq said:
In a nutshell. It's all happening 'over there' and it certainly doen't have any real impact on the average person. We are inured to violence and suffering and injustice as we see it happening in films, soap operas, and sadly in real life - but all via the TV.

'Television. Drug of the nation. Breeding ingnorance and feeding radiation'
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exactly

the whole 'war on terror' has been a tv thing, starting with the twin towers attacks which came straight out of a movie (i remember they even had to cancel about 5 blockbusters cos they had WTC attacks in them ffs)
 
isitme said:
exactly

the whole 'war on terror' has been a tv thing, starting with the twin towers attacks which came straight out of a movie (i remember they even had to cancel about 5 blockbusters cos they had WTC attacks in them ffs)
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There was also a campaign to change the name of the 2nd installment of Lord Of The Rings. Ya couldnt make it up.

As for the disgusting behaviour of our elected representives, there is a level at which we are all to blame. Its not MPs fault they were systematically lied to but it's thier fault no one was held accountable for the lies. Just as it is ours.

The real nasty element in the piece are the phoney shits who fancy themselves as a bit "left wing" but back whatever shit Labour do out of sheer tribalism.
 
There isn't any "we"

darkfibre said:
Who is this 'we' of which you speak? :eek:
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There isn't any 'we'. But although there were the biggest demonstrations in UK history against the invasion of Iraq, it still went ahead. Then in 2005, Bliar & Co still got elected.

People get what they vote for. And perhaps they are voting for this. They are voting for it by not opposing it. And perhaps they really wanted it, consciously and knowingly. No intelligent person could have been taking in by Blair's lies about WMDs. They have no excuse. They were patently lies even at the time.

As to the US elections - people will likewise vote for McCain. Maybe the electoral system is rigged too, but still, a large number of US electors will vote Republican. Though the BBC blatantly want Obama to win, what would happen if the opinion polls were widely wrong and John McCain won the election?

Just when you think that politics has reached a low and can go no further down, something else comes along to point up a new and even deeper low.
 
Fullyplumped said:
I'm sure that someone will be along to agree with you in a minute or two!
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So typically smug and condescending. I'm intrigued though.

Do you have any regrets or second thoughts about Blair's subservience to an odious foreign power and invasion of Iraq or is it all still totally justifiable over there in the alternate universe of Harry's Place?
 
Hehe, a quick search answers that question, at least as far as the strange consensus-reality of Harry's Place goes ...

(search their site for) 'Reasons to be thankful Bush Won in 2004'

nuLabour is a very strange animal.
 
when the few Scottish railway workers incredible refused to move the munitions train, they should have been fted by the anti-war movemnt,m etc, put on platforms, this may have encouraged other workers, etc.

and yes, i do partly blame the SWP leadership(hijack) of STWC which was very broad and progressive coalition.
 
I'm wondering what are the chances of getting an honest reply from Fullyplumped? I'm thinking that the probability is low that we'll see any response other than smug and condescending waffle and bullshit that carefully avoids responsibility for the actions of the arseholes she supported.

You never know though, perhaps I'm wrong.

It would be really interesting to see how a nuLabour propagandist, now defends Blair's actions in support of Bush's insanity. Perhaps we'll actually see some honesty ...

I wouldn't hold your breath though.
 
It's also quite interesting that nuLabour are so tolerant of the barely veiled racism of their good friends in the Republican party. The good friends they made us all complicit in a vile, stupid, murderous war to suck up to.

I mean, how do they look at themselves in a mirror now, having seen the arrogant racist neanderthal face of what they're allied with, having heard them openly calling for Obama to swing from the traditional cottonwood tree for being 'uppity', without wanting to smash their faces into the glass and to cut their own throats with the shards out of pure shame at the terrible choices they made and the deluge of rotting shit that they smeared on their fellow citizens, most of whom were not at all keen on smelling of this evil, murderous racist excrement that they were so quiveringly keen on plunging us all into on behalf of an odious foreign power.

I'm thinking here of the many thousands of citizens who protested so vigorously about the shame that nuLabour and their Republican friends brought on all of us, to the point that they had to invent a whole series of new laws to make it harder for us to remind them of how disgusting and shameful their alliance with that wretched putrescent shit-squirt of warmongering, syphililtic jeezo-nazi madness actually was.

It really is a puzzle to me how the people who were in favour of this atrocious behaviour can have the effrontery to show their faces in public anymore, with the blood of Iraqi children staining their teeth. Perhaps I lack insight into human nature. I really think that this is a question worth exploring. How do the nuLabour neo-cons sleep at night? Do they actually still think that invading Iraq was a good thing? Do they actually think that selling us out to GW Bush was honourable?

Are they actully going to try to argue that what they did was right or are they just going to try to pretend that their embrace of low-rent American evil and the disgrace and dishonour that they inflicted on rest of us, whether we bought into their war crimes and their disastrous, illegal and utterly stupid war or not, never happened?
 
Badger Kitten said:
general strike
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Not much chance the unions would do that much to back anything that would seriously harm their beloved reactionary scumchums in the Labour Party.

Having said that, such a strike wouldnt have had to be union orchestrated but looking at the failure of attempts to even do road blocks it seems the public dont have the appetite for serious confrontation or disruption. We can make of that what we will.
 
isitme said:
exactly

the whole 'war on terror' has been a tv thing, starting with the twin towers attacks which came straight out of a movie (i remember they even had to cancel about 5 blockbusters cos they had WTC attacks in them ffs)
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The tube attacks weren't a tv thing.
 
actually to be fair MSK went to Pakistan several times and is thought to have met with Al Q leaders in Nov- Dec 04 who told him not to go for martyrdom in Afghanistan but to go back to London and do it there, but let's not have another 7.7 conspiraloon thread.
 
I'm not one for 'conspiracy theories' etc, so I don't want to start that counter productive debate. but I don't believe that the war on terror was America reacting to some mental billionaire living underground in Afghanistan who hated the decadence of the west

that's all i'm saying so as not to disrupt the thread
 
sleaterkinney said:
I didn't realise this was another crap jokey thread. I'll leave you to it.
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ok then, serious answer

it was a terrorist group in a poor country run by an incredibly corrupt group that was funded by the CIA initially very publically, but nothing to do with the CIA. run by a mad billionaire in a cave
 
isitme said:
ok then, serious answer

it was a terrorist group in a poor country run by an incredibly corrupt group that was funded by the CIA but nothing to do with the CIA. run by a mad billionaire in a cave
Click to expand...
The Taliban weren't corrupt and they and Al Qaeda rose after the CIA had left the scene.
 
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