Discussion in 'Dulwich Hamlet FC' started by darryl, Sep 29, 2017.
Glad to see we're sticking with the trust on this. Nothing to say until the paperwork arrives!
How the fuck can we be running at a loss of £100,000 per year?
Requoted for posterity:
No idea why, but that won't open when I click on it. Says page not found?
The other week Meadow were saying DHFC was losing £150k per year! So either things are improving *rapidly*, or those numbers are a bit ... flimsy.
We'll be raking in a million a month this time next year!
It's not just you, I'm guessing they've removed the story to check facts.
That would tally with the growth in net liabilities in the most recent accounts: DULWICH HAMLET FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)
The profit and loss shows a loss of £146,000 for the year to 30/09/16 which equals a loss of of around £12,000 for each month of the year. But where is the breakdown of the P&L accounts? Why are we losing all this money? If we're paying £5,000 a week for players (= £260,000/year if players are paid for all 52 weeks of the year), a sum we must get very close to recouping in gate receipts, how are we managing to lose so much money? Where's all the money going? That's just ridiculous. Where can we see a breakdown of the P&L accounts please?
The full accounts exist but there is no obligation in law to publish them. The only place they have to be filed is with the FA.
Non league players are usually under contract for 30 or so weeks a year. I'm not privy to details of Dulwich's contracts but doubt they typically offer players 52 week contracts.
Non contract players are typically paid to play so are very unlikely to be paid over summer.
Most are generally on 40 week contracts, in non-league, I think.
It's all group accounting - one company, 'Dulwich Hamlet Football Club' posting a loss doesn't really tell you anything about the overall income and expenditure around however they've set it up. It's convenient for them at the moment, if it wasn't they'd change it. If for example the planning was dependent on it showing a profit it no doubt suddenly would do.
Apologies you are right, I'm wrong. The 30 weeks contract is a semi pro rugby league team I know a bit about.
You'd be a bit daft to offer 30 weeks in non league given how long a season lasts.
trying to out you as the mystery dulwich millionaire...
all of takkforalt's posts are made from a swimming pool
If Southwark can denude the land of any value, through whatever means, then a fan buyout is one the cards I suppose. McCormack can keep the car-wash.
Now that I've looked up denude in the dictionary, how would you expect a fan buyout to work exactly? How much do you think that the ground, for which the landlords paid five million pounds, from memory, would go for? Our Supporters Trust, according their website, at March 2017, had £32,000 sitting in the 100 Club account, I wouldn't have thought there'd be more than a few thousand spare on top of that. I don't think they'll let it go that cheap...unless you're going to have a very successful crowd-funding appeal. Anyone got a couple of million to spare?
Update here from Jack:
Dulwich Hamlet: stuck in the middle between Southwark Council and Meadow Partners
Love the idea of a Meadow PR push. They seem fucking masterful at that sort of thing so far.
As if anyone trusts them these days anyway. They can PR away all they want.
Yes, Liam, I suspected there was no legal obligation to publish the accounts, but I was asking if we could see them anyway! We're supposed to be a community club wanting to eventually become fully owned by the community, so why can't the 'community' see what the money is being spent on, unless the club have something to hide? I'm not questioning the commitment or dedication of loyal servants of the club such as yourself, I'm just wanting to understand what's going wrong and why. And, I suspect many others are asking similar questions. Also, if the players are only being paid for 40 weeks/year it makes the losses even more baffling to me!
Like most businesses there are things that are not in the public domain and that is where these figures will remain until all stakeholders in the club decide to comment. I will only state that there are a multitude of financial spreadsheets that all stakeholders have recently received after seeing nothing up to now. I am sure you will understand that no comment can be made until these are unpacked and there is consensus.
I fail to understand why you are thinking "the club", by which you mean the committee i suppose, has something to hide when we have not been party to any financial decisions. If there is something hidden then I am sure those assessing the figures will find it but you also need to understand that if the club showed profits then there would be no case for a new stadium.
I'll leave it there but you can speak to me face to face anytime but I'm not going to conduct club business on a public message board.
This is the bit that I don't get... Hendon and Harrow, to take two examples of many, are second and fifth in the league on gates of 150-250 each week. Expenses bar some extra player wages must be pretty similar - power, greenkeeper, cleaning, match day etc. So how can we be making such a huge loss on crowds 10 times bigger? The can bar alone must rake in £5k on home Saturdays?
Thanks for your reply. I don't really understand the multiplicity of companies involved in the situation and I'm sure no-one on the football committee has anything to hide; it just looks as if somebody does! I'll come and chat to you at the ground sometime! Cheers!
That's actually quite easy to answer they most likely have private individuals who are contributing to the costs through donations/loans etc. That is how most clubs survive as very few can turn profit on their activities. I would guess their business rates are lower and also that their facilities sweat better than ours have in terms of non matchday income. Hendon have a 3G Pitch and Harrow have better bars.
I will stste that i am sure no other club has spent so much on cleaning or on security.
Remember it was in Meadows interests to show the club makes losses to justify a new stadium.
Is cleaning and security the same as champagne and flowers in the advertising industry?
Cleaning? The stadium is done by volunteers. Can’t comment on the inside of the building, was the contract put out to tender?
"We're supposed to be a community club wanting to eventually become fully owned by the community"
We are not a community club, and never have been. We are a privately owned football club, whose Football Committee work alongside the Supporters Trust, to try to ensure the Club has a positive profile within the local community. We try, as in the volunteers on the Football Committee, to ensure we are a Football Club with a social conscience doing what's right for our local community.
But I personally do not believe any football club can call themselves a 'community club' unless they are community owned, be that 100% or though a large shareholding...
Further update from DHST on the Green Dale lease situation
Earlier this week we issued a statement responding to speculation in the press following the Green Dale lease renewal hearing on Monday 16 October. In that statement we noted that at that time we had not seen the formal court order which would confirm the suggestions made in the press.
We have asked Meadow to provide the Court Order but this has not been made available yet. This is not necessarily unusual as these can take up to 2 weeks to come through. However, in the meantime we have also requested to see the minute of order which is usually agreed between the parties soon after the hearing. We have also requested to see the witness statements filed as part of the proceedings.
We have written to a number of local councillors and the Leader of the Council, Peter John, for their support and asking for some clarification over the some of the statements made in the press in relation to the security of the Club. We also continue to maintain dialogue with all other major stakeholders involved.
This is an important time for the Football Club and DHST is committed to pursuing its objectives to secure the future of the Club. Collective fan representation and influence is vitally important and we would encourage anyone who is not signed up as a member of the Supporters’ Trust to consider joining to support our aims.
We will provide a further update as soon as we have any further information to pass on.
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