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Was the "Total War" of WW2 a terrorist war?

redsquirrel said:
SO Isreal doesn't destroy Palestinian houses, take land/water/resorces, set up check points dividing Palestinians, destroy civilian infrastructure, etc, etc. You quite clearly meant killing when you referred to targetting before and have been caught out admit it.



If you can't talk like civilized human being, how can you convince others to change their behavior?

There is a real issue of immaturity on the left -- other people will not change their ways if you can't speak to them on an adult level.

But, it's pretty pointless discussing this with you, so fuck it.
 
energy said:
If you can't talk like civilized human being, how can you convince others to change their behavior?

There is a real issue of immaturity on the left -- other people will not change their ways if you can't speak to them on an adult level.

But, it's pretty pointless discussing this with you, so fuck it.
Right so you know your wrong and don't want to admit it. Stop being a prat I didn't even call you a name but said that your statement was bollocks, which it clearly is. If you can't cope with that then I suggest you leave the boards as you'll get plenty worse.
 
energy said:
Why are you rolling your eyes at me? You thought something was funny that really wasn't very funny at all. How do you explain that you thought it was funny?
Calm down. It was a misunderstanding. "PUT THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION DOWN. STEP AWAY FROM THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION AND PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR..."
 
energy said:
There seems to be 2 different jokes understood in what I said. This is the one I got, although I find too nasty to be really funny, like you said. The other one (butterfly child's) is still a mystery to me. :rolleyes:
Maybe your difficulty is in understanding just how incredibly funny your remark actually was...
 
the IDF do issue plastic bullets but the things are steel cored and fired out of M16s :( . Then tell the grunts on the street there non-lethal :(
 
Spion said:
And WTF are they doing shooting at Palestinian houses in Palestinian streets for in the first place?
It might be instructive to try and figure out at what point outfits like the Stern Gang and people like David Ben Gurion stopped becoming terrorists and became legitimate...
 
pembrokestephen said:
Calm down. It was a misunderstanding. "PUT THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION DOWN. STEP AWAY FROM THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION AND PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR..."



CALM DOWN, THAT WAS HOURS AGO :rolleyes:
 
pembrokestephen said:
It might be instructive to try and figure out at what point outfits like the Stern Gang and people like David Ben Gurion stopped becoming terrorists and became legitimate...


DBG wasn't a terrorist.
 
pembrokestephen said:
Good point. No, he was just someone who advocated dispossessing an entire nation. Silly me...


During the pre-statehood period in Palestine, Ben-Gurion represented the mainstream Jewish establishment and was known as a moderate, with whose Haganah organization the British dealt with frequently, sometimes in order to arrest more radical groups involved in resistance against them. He was strongly opposed to the Revisionist Zionist movement led by Ze'ev Jabotinsky and his successor Menachem Begin.

He was also involved in occasional violent resistance during the short period of time his organization cooperated with Menachem Begin's Irgun, though he refused to be involved in terrorism of any kind, and insisted that violence only be used against military targets. Ben-Gurion initially agreed to Begin's plan to carry out the King David Hotel bombing, with the intent of humiliating (rather than killing) the British military stationed there. However, when the risks of mass killing became apparent, Ben-Gurion told Begin to call the operation off; Begin refused. During the first weeks of Israel's independence, it was decided to disband all resistance groups and replace them with a single formal army. To that end, Ben-Gurion gave the order to open fire upon and sink a ship named Altalena, which carried ammunition for the Irgun (also called Etzel) resistance group. That command remains controversial to this day.

From Wikipedia
 
energy said:
Japanese civilian casualties WWII: 672,000

Chinese civilian casualties WWII: 15,000,000

Indian civilian casualties WWII: 2,150,000


Nuff said.

Sorry, what are you saying? Is this something to do with collective guilt?
 
Poi E said:
Sorry, what are you saying? Is this something to do with collective guilt?


No, it's to do with the sympathy for Japanese casualties being misplaced, at the expense of Japan's victims.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were awful, but compared to the horrors in China, they pale in significance.

Why does the world make such a big deal about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, when they number about 10% of Japan's victims?
 
energy said:
No, it's to do with the sympathy for Japanese casualties being misplaced, at the expense of Japan's victims.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were awful, but compared to the horrors in China, they pale in significance.

Why does the world make such a big deal about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, when they number about 10% of Japan's victims?

Because we live in an age where there has been massive proliferation of the very same weapons that brought about the instant destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No-one denies the horrors of China. Why are you playing a numbers game with casualties? It's offensive and misguided.
 
Poi E said:
No-one denies the horrors of China.


That's not true. The Japanese deny it vehrmently.


Why are you playing a numbers game with casualties? It's offensive and misguided.


When as much heartfelt remorse has been expressed over the victims of Japan as the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, then we'll have something to talk about.
 
energy said:
That's not true. The Japanese deny it vehrmently.





When as much heartfelt remorse has been expressed over the victims of Japan as the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, then we'll have something to talk about.

I meant around here. Many Bosnian Serbs also deny Srebrenica, however it doesn't stop me from feeling sympathy for their slaughter at the hands of muslims in the area.

You cannot see individuals comprising humanity, can you? It's all sides, national groups and collective guilt for you.

Why don't we start on about the Chinese slaughtering Tibetans? That plays your game.
 
You cannot see individuals comprising humanity, can you? It's all sides, national groups and collective guilt for you.

Him and most of the planet Poi. The number of people who see the world as comprised of 5 billion individuals who aren't tied in to nation states which have some form of collective guilt for past actions (I'd put money on it that there isn't a society on the planet that hasn't oppressed it's own or someone else's population in it's history)...but in the case of Japan I have a degree of sympathy to Energy's position - what about the 20 million Chinese that the Japanease killed and refuses to acknowledge? Does that not make them a bigger terrorist state, committing worse crimes than the US did against Japan by firebombing and nuking it? Nor that fact that, as with Germany, Japan was the agressor nation in the Pacific and SE Asias wars?
 
Poi E said:
I meant around here. Many Bosnian Serbs also deny Srebrenica, however it doesn't stop me from feeling sympathy for their slaughter at the hands of muslims in the area.


I thought it was the Serbs who slaughtered the Muslims, not the other way around.


You cannot see individuals comprising humanity, can you? It's all sides, national groups and collective guilt for you.


Why do you have sympathy for the aggressors?


Why don't we start on about the Chinese slaughtering Tibetans? That plays your game.


Yes, we certainly could start on about that. I am appalled that the world has forgotten this and doesn't condemn China as much as it condemns others for lesser crimes.
 
If Germany had won the war, then Churchill and Bomber Harris would have been hung as war criminals for Dresden ,Hamburg and other bombings/firestorms, its a cliche but the victor writes the history.


btw , Channel 4 commissioned an amazing documentary about Bomber Harris:
Fireraiser, afain, it was never shown, surprise.
 
energy said:
I thought it was the Serbs who slaughtered the Muslims, not the other way around.





Why do you have sympathy for the aggressors?





Yes, we certainly could start on about that. I am appalled that the world has forgotten this and doesn't condemn China as much as it condemns others for lesser crimes.

Read up on the conflict.

What aggressors? The people who committed atrocities in China are mostly dead. Do you mean my mate Kyoshi? He's a decent sort of bloke, hard working etc. wouldn't harm a fly.

Why can you not feel for the deaths of innocent Japanese they way you can for Chinese? What is it that you dislike about Japanese people?

kyser: going down that path, lets start by condeming the UK and its history of slaughter and theft. But it would be pointless.
 
treelover said:
If Germany had won the war, then Churchill and Bomber Harris would have been hung as war criminals for Dresden ,Hamburg and other bombings/firestorms, its a cliche but the victor writes the history.



If Germany had won the war, I almost definately would not be here today, and perhaps tens of millions more would not either.
 
kyser: going down that path, lets start by condeming the UK and its history of slaughter and theft. But it would be pointless.

Why not? Maybe a massive international period of honesty, reflection and admission where ALL cultures take stock of their histories as honestly as possible and say 'Yeah, we've been shite over the years'
 
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