Was Thatcher's conduct during the Falklands War justified?

[durruti02]

Naive? I doubt it. The Falklands was very much a consequence of the Law of Unintended Consequences, just like most most wars are.

Care to synopise that link, because I'm frankly not prepared to waste a couple of hours of my life to wade through 35 pages of what looks like propaganda to find that 'shock, horror', politicians respond to events.

really you think thatcher did not see a opportunity in the argentinian actions?? sorry but you do seem incredibly nieve

and so you need a synopsis? ok, very simply, the article shows how the Tories were preparing to attack/destroy the NUM for many years previous to 1984 ..

i find it extraordinary that unlike the vast maj of thatcher commentators you think she simply 'resonded to events' .. you are utterly and totally wrong

 

[MikeMcc]

really you think thatcher did not see a opportunity in the argentinian actions?? sorry but you do seem incredibly nieve

and so you need a synopsis? ok, very simply, the article shows how the Tories were preparing to attack/destroy the NUM for many years previous to 1984 ..

i find it extraordinary that unlike the vast maj of thatcher commentators you think she simply 'resonded to events' .. you are utterly and totally wrong

Of course she saw opportunity in it, that doesn't mean it was planned in any realistic sense.

 

[Isambard]

Well apart from choosing to ignore the messgaes sent from Port Stanley to London that warned that an invastion was likely to happen. "Taken by surprise" was Thatcher not.

Similar as to when Iraq invaded Kuwait.

 

[chainsaw cat]

Forcibly bring the Brits home, you mean? They all wanted to stay.

Personally, I think the response was justified because another country invaded our territory - whaddaya gonna do, you know? However, I think that we should be looking into relinquishing the territory cos it is quite mental that A)we have it and B) we give a shit about it, being that it's just a big old pile of rocks in the arse end of nowhere and not - to my knowledge - valuable at all.
I think Thatcher's conduct during the war was totally reprehensible but, then again, like the rest of urban, I'm a lefty Thatcher hating big old Tory hater so I'm pretty much bound to say that, like most others on this site, making a poll, if not redundant, then definitely a bit bent and pointless, Mugabe stylee.

You could say that about the Western Isles, but the locals would be miffed if the Icelanders invaded and the Army didn't jump in.

 

[chainsaw cat]

The war "could of" been averted, young Neville, by the scrap dealers not landing.

Then, the war "could of" been averted by the main force not invading.

Then, the war "could of" been averted by the invaders withdrawing.

Those things didn't happen. That's not our fault, it's their fault. You ought not to of argued like that. I hope you of seen the error of your ways.

'Could have'.

If Thatcher was so great as Education Minister and then PM, why can't Neville get this right? Eh?

 

[Isambard]

You could say that about the Western Isles, but the locals would be miffed if the Icelanders invaded and the Army didn't jump in.

If "our" territory" and "our" people are so important what is with Diego Garcia?

 

[chainsaw cat]

If "our" territory" and "our" people are so important what is with Diego Garcia?

Hey, I'm not Foreign Secretary. I'm too tall and too old.

Just 'cos they get it partially right sometimes doesn't mean they get it at all right all the time.

 

[Isambard]

Just 'cos they get it partially right sometimes doesn't mean they get it at all right all the time.

But Thatcher didn't get it "right" with the Falklands.

She knew an invasion was imminent and did nothing.
She pooh poohed any peaceable solution that wouldn't necessarily have meant loss of soverignty.
She waged an unescessary war that costs the lives of a lot of young working class soldiers on both sides who could do nothing for their despotic leaders.
She used that war to cover up severe domestic issues that might well have cost her an election in 1983 or 1984.
On the back of that war she hyprocritically changed citizenship laws to give full British citizenship and right of abode to a small number of white Falklanders while crucially excluding the people of Hong Kong.

 

[chainsaw cat]

Agree with all of the above.

The only thing 'right' about the conduct of the war was waging it with determination once the Argentine invasion had happened; ducking out at that stage would have been even worse than going through with it.

SO, really, no her conduct was contemptible - it was everyone else, below say Cabinet rank, who behaved fairly well.

 

[derf]

AH so according to your first quote it is quite possible that both governments had the same agenda.

The problem is that it was a totally avoidable war that thatcher had absolutely no intention of stopping. From the moment the scrap dealers landed on the island it could of been averted. Even then it was still teenage conscripts against marines so what happened then that highly trained marines were beaten by kids Something stinks there!!!!

Look at the number and take it from there.

For "teenage conscripts" read "special operations force of the Argentine Marine Corps"

 

[likesfish]

But Thatcher didn't get it "right" with the Falklands.

She knew an invasion was imminent and did nothing.
actually she did but too late dispatched a couple of hunter killer nuclear submarines to show the flag and threaten the fuck out of the argentine navy.
Which had been the response of the labour gov in 1977.
but got flustered by backbenchers and then her or a spokesperson went the subs are on there way.
Giving argentina notice to try something now or give up

 

[durruti02]

Of course she saw opportunity in it, that doesn't mean it was planned in any realistic sense.

the issue is not to my mind how planned it was .. the absolute issue relates to her use of this situation

.. to repeat this is a woman who held tradition in contempt, who was a revolutionary as regards nationalism and protectionism and rejected the post war consensus on those matters, who was a massive supportter and much influenced by the Chilean fascist dictator Pinochet, who treated communities all over THIS country with contempt, who did not even believe in 'society' just collections of individuals ...

YET YET YET ...

we are asked to believe she was so concerned with a small agricultural community of the tip of south america and so against argentinian fascism that she spent billions on this war???

no, this argument simply does not hold up

 

[brasicritique]

the only thing she ever did right imo an funny how all the usual contradictory lefties start finger wagging whilst ignoring the evil dictatorship in argentina at the time

 

[littlebabyjesus]

the only thing she ever did right imo an funny how all the usual contradictory lefties start finger wagging whilst ignoring the evil dictatorship in argentina at the time

Who's ignoring the junta? Who on this thread holds the junta and their actions in anything other than contempt? Saying that Thatcher was wrong does not equal approval for Argentine actions. It is not contradictory to say that they were both in the wrong.

 

[likesfish]

cause it was painted red white and blue and British troops had been defeated in battle it was obvious retake the Falklands or lose the election.
Labour would have done the same thing or face imminent defeat.

 

[MikeMcc]

the issue is not to my mind how planned it was .. the absolute issue relates to her use of this situation

.. to repeat this is a woman who held tradition in contempt, who was a revolutionary as regards nationalism and protectionism and rejected the post war consensus on those matters, who was a massive supportter and much influenced by the Chilean fascist dictator Pinochet, who treated communities all over THIS country with contempt, who did not even believe in 'society' just collections of individuals ...

YET YET YET ...

we are asked to believe she was so concerned with a small agricultural community of the tip of south america and so against argentinian fascism that she spent billions on this war???

no, this argument simply does not hold up

I've never suggested that it had much to do with the rights of the Bennies, it had lots to do with the perception of Britain as a 'Power', resources and access to the Antarctic. She certainly used the situation to her own ends as well, that doesn't imply that it was planned so that she could bolster her position at home. if that were the case the planning would been carried out to ensure our victory, rather than subject the guys to a very close run war. By the close of hostilities we were getting very close to running out of ammunition.

 

[tbaldwin]

I've never suggested that it had much to do with the rights of the Bennies, it had lots to do with the perception of Britain as a 'Power', resources and access to the Antarctic. She certainly used the situation to her own ends as well, that doesn't imply that it was planned so that she could bolster her position at home. if that were the case the planning would been carried out to ensure our victory, rather than subject the guys to a very close run war. By the close of hostilities we were getting very close to running out of ammunition.

Wasnt a nuclear submarine guarding the Falklands up until about a month before the argies invaded?
Bit suspicious of why it was removed and whether it was a bit of a green light to the argies.....

 

[likesfish]

no there was HMS endurance more a glorified maritime patrol ship was painted bright red and white though it did have two small guns and a helicopter with with very old missiles
the plan to scrap it to save cash may have helped persuade Argentina it could get away with its mad scheme
its replacement is a proper ice breaker and unarmed

 

[brasicritique]

Who's ignoring the junta? Who on this thread holds the junta and their actions in anything other than contempt? Saying that Thatcher was wrong does not equal approval for Argentine actions. It is not contradictory to say that they were both in the wrong.

okay they were both wrong but what does that mean in terms of what action should have been taken? Anyway the argies got there own back with maradonna i would swap the falklands for the world cup in 86 in day

 

[rapattaque]

Anyway the argies got there own back with maradonna i would swap the falklands for the world cup in 86 in day

I rang the Argentinian embassy in London last bank holiday Monday when I was a bit worse the wear to have a chat about that.

 

[rapattaque]

I'm frankly quite dismayed at how many people who I'd otherwise consider sensible really like to stick up for this farce of war.

So I thought it best to settle it on here.

Was she right to go to war so readily or not?

Tory cost cutting in the guise of military withdrawals left the place wide open for invasion.

Should they have seen an invasion coming? Yes.

Any choice other than to stand up to the invasion? Absolutely not.

Were the islands succesfully recaptured? Yes.

Absolute waste of everyones time? Yes.

 

[likesfish]

labour fucked the argies off in 77 with no shots fired two nuclear submarines and a frigate were sent

few fishermen were scared when said nuclear subs surfaced to be accidentally spotted