Warren Ellis?

[fogbat]

How about these - six short stories by Warren Ellis featuring Falconer, the Great Detective

 

[gsv]

Maybe I have not been reading the right ones then.
If any of those others are shit too well then i'll i'll i'll. . . .

I am also reading swamp thing for the first time and getting a bit bored.

Maybe you just don't like comics. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
<shrugs>

GS(v)

 

[gsv]

Ellis constantly tries and make Spider seem more badass by mentioning reprehensible things he's done off screen.

Like making the president shit himself prolapsed.
Or beating someone up with the Chair Leg Of Truth.
Or killing various hit-men.
Or killing his ex-wife's head.

Oh hang on - these things all happen on-screen.

Sounds like you just can't handle that he's what we call in the English language call a complex and interesting character.

GS(v)

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Maybe you just don't like comics. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
<shrugs>

GS(v)

Well that's the thing. I DO love comics and read fucking loads of them (perhaps too many) and always have. Thats why I have bothered to buy and read about six Warren Ellis books despite being unimpressed by them all. I keep thinking "there must be something I am missing. Maybe I need to see this though to the end" but no, it's just more worthless crap, hence the thread.

I think it is worth bringing up dredd because unlike writers like Moore (who really do know how to a pastiche correctly and inventively) Mr Ellis has not outgrown the childish roots of 2000ad. All I have read is at best a good dread yarn (and I don't rate dredd).

 

[8den]

Like making the president shit himself prolapsed.
Or beating someone up with the Chair Leg Of Truth.
Or killing various hit-men.
Or killing his ex-wife's head.


GS(v)

All of which of are acts of violence committed against people who fucking deserve it. My point is that the really reprehensible shit spider is supposed to have engaged in happens off screen.

Killing hit men isn't exactly something anyone is going to horrified by. No one lost points humiliating a US president. And we're constantly told what a collection of evil hags his Ex Wives are. Oh gosh man fucks with his evil ex wife. Ho Ho fucking ho he's a scamp!. When it comes to the truly evil shit SJ has engaged in, it all happens behind the scenes.


Its fucking weak as diabetic piss.

 

[8den]

let's be honest here, referencing early Dredd scuppers you. Because crucially early Dredd was shite and Transmet isn't.

Dotc I really like you. Which means I'll dislike the immense bollock kicking you're going to get when we meet. But you'll get it. Early Dredd happened in the 80s. Comics leaped forward in those two decades. Spider Jersualism is some kind of mega city one early eighties characters wrongly given his own series. Rouge Trooper's rifle had more personality.

 

[DotCommunist]

Your arguement has had a go on the waltzers and span off in a mad direction.

Transmet wins because it's riffing on fear n loathing. Freak angels wins because it riffs on John Wyhndam.


Both are great pieces of pastiche, and (this bit is important) Ellis had some fucking excellent artists to work with in both cases.

 

[8den]

Your arguement has had a go on the waltzers and span off in a mad direction.

Transmet wins because it's riffing on fear n loathing. Freak angels wins because it riffs on John Wyhndam.

It riffs on. But missing the point so badly that it lands on a different continent .

Both are great pieces of pastiche, and (this bit is important) Ellis had some fucking excellent artists to work with in both cases.

Thats a fucking daft argument Chris Bachalo did amazing work on Shade the changing man, and brilliant work on the first issues of Generation X for the X men. But fucking hell generation X was a piece of shit and Shade was freaking awesome.

Transmet is fucking dire because of the writing, I've noticed you've not addressed in any real sense my issues why I loath the piece of shit. It's unoriginal, hackneyed, derivative crap.

 

[8den]

I'll admit I could be wrong.

Warren Ellis scripted the GI Joe animated movie that came out this year, and apparently according to this
fan she was so impressed she did up a t-shirt that states not only did he make sweet tender love to her childhood heroes, but he's also hung like dirk diggler.

 

[DotCommunist]

It riffs on. But missing the point so badly that it lands on a different continent .






Thats a fucking daft argument Chris Bachalo did amazing work on Shade the changing man, and brilliant work on the first issues of Generation X for the X men. But fucking hell generation X was a piece of shit and Shade was freaking awesome.

Transmet is fucking dire because of the writing, I've noticed you've not addressed in any real sense my issues why I loath the piece of shit. It's unoriginal, hackneyed, derivative crap.

because your issues are yours and nothing to do with Warren Ellis

He shoots! he scores! and there is 8eden weeping at the sideline!

 

[8den]

Lets be mature and adult about this, we'll agree you're completely fucking wrong, and go our separate ways.

 

[gsv]

All of which of are acts of violence committed against people who fucking deserve it. My point is that the really reprehensible shit spider is supposed to have engaged in happens off screen.

Killing hit men isn't exactly something anyone is going to horrified by. No one lost points humiliating a US president. And we're constantly told what a collection of evil hags his Ex Wives are. Oh gosh man fucks with his evil ex wife. Ho Ho fucking ho he's a scamp!. When it comes to the truly evil shit SJ has engaged in, it all happens behind the scenes.


Its fucking weak as diabetic piss.

He's not meant to be evil. If you think he's not sufficiently vile and unpleasant on the page, then you're extremely fucking jaded. You're also probably misunderstanding the character.

GS(v)

 

[8den]

He's not meant to be evil. If you think he's not sufficiently vile and unpleasant on the page, then you're extremely fucking jaded. You're also probably misunderstanding the character.

GS(v)

He's meant to be amoral. But Warren Ellis is too much of a fucking hack to even try to attempt and portray that.

No I understand the character. And I understand that Ellis wants to make him out to be most reprehensible asshole in the city, but at the same time he's afraid to actually show him acting like the reprehensible asshole in case we stop liking him.

His on screen drug use is fucking weak ass compared to how it's described. The violence he's apparently commited is mentioned as back story. Honestly it's like Rambo tickling people to death while Colonel whatshis face tells us that Rambo used to rip the spines out of puppies and used them as a toothbrush every morning.

 

[DotCommunist]

He's not meant to be amoral at all though is he.

 

[8den]

Like making the president shit himself prolapsed.
Or beating someone up with the Chair Leg Of Truth.
Or killing various hit-men.
Or killing his ex-wife's head.

Oh hang on - these things all happen on-screen.

Sounds like you just can't handle that he's what we call in the English language call a complex and interesting character.

GS(v)

Oh fuck off, my entire point is that SJ is a bad photocopy of a "complex and interesting" character. He's nowhere near as cool or badass as some people think. There are streams with more depth than SJ.

I think I've made it abundantly clear, my problem isn't that spider jersuliasm isn't a complex and interesting character. It's that the author wants to make his character "complex and interesting" while trying to avoid the baggage that comes with trying to make such a character interesting.

 

[8den]

He's not meant to be amoral at all though is he.

He kills people and starts riots.

 

[DotCommunist]

He kills people and starts riots.

that isn't indicative of an absence of any moral code. Unorthodoxy morality perhaps.

 

[8den]

that isn't indicative of an absence of any moral code. Unorthodoxy morality perhaps.

Roman Polanski should try that defence.

 

[gsv]

He's meant to be amoral. But Warren Ellis is too much of a fucking hack to even try to attempt and portray that.

No he's not. He's an egotistical, selfish, rude and violent cunt. He also cares profoundly about people, particularly those getting kicked hardest by industry and politicians, but despises their stupidity.

If you think he's meant to be amoral, you really have missed the point.

GS(v)

 

[DotCommunist]

Spot on. Amorality is not the same as being a bit of a cunt.

 

[8den]

No he's not. He's an egotistical, selfish, rude and violent cunt. He also cares profoundly about people, particularly those getting kicked hardest by industry and politicians, but despises their stupidity.

If you think he's meant to be amoral, you really have missed the point.

GS(v)

He's also supposed to be violent and indifferent to his many PAs. Classy.

 

[Rod Sleeves]

Spider Jerusalem is meant to be a mental, damaged, radical, outraged, and deeply moral character.

He's not very convincing because he is written by someone who may be essentially a sound person, but basically a bit of a pulpy hack to be honest, not that it makes him a bad writer at all - Freakangels is very enjoyable, and some of his other stuff is OK, worth the price of admission for sure.

 

[gsv]

He's also supposed to be violent and indifferent to his many PAs. Classy.

Yeh and? Last post, he wasn't unpleasant enough for your tastes.

GS(v)

 

[fogbat]

He's also supposed to be violent and indifferent to his many PAs. Classy.

Incoherent argument is incoherent.

 

[8den]

Yeh and? Last post, he wasn't unpleasant enough for your tastes.

GS(v)

Rubs temple. Its not that he's too unpleasant. Its the writer wants to make him incredibly unpleasant but refuses to show this, incase he's too unlikeable.

 

[8den]

Incoherent argument is incoherent.

You could run and cry while screaming that I just don't understand him.

 

[fogbat]

You could run and cry while screaming that I just don't understand him.

Allow me to refer you to post #3

 

[8den]

Allow me to refer you to post #3

Allow me to refer to the part of the web where you are introduced to my friend who's a treasure hunter and a dentist. He'll not only find your teeth but fit them back in.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

#agedlikemilk