Wapping Dispute

[LindaR]

Different point of view:
Those cunts in the NGA deserved everything they got. The bastards were the total antithesis of 'brothers', they never lost a chance to shaft any other media union's dispute while ensuring that none of us could deny them anything. It's never ceased to amaze me that after Roop broke them, Sogat - which had equally suffered at their hands - let them merge instead of telling them where they could get off.
Sogat, the NUJ amd NATSOPA should've merged: we had common interests and we wouldn't be in the shithole we are now. Instead, those NGA wankers took over and, yet again, shafted us all, not realising that on that occasion they were shafting themselves as well. Cunts. Or, in other words, pefect New Labour politicians.

Have I mentioned that I think the NGA were all cunts?

 

[glenquagmire]

Serves you right for electing Brenda Dean

 

[internetstalker]

I was chatting about this the other day.

It was before my time... was anybody here involved in the dispute?

Are there any good books on the subject?

Possibly London's most violent industrial dispute?

Shouldn't the thread title be

Wapping Great Dispute?

 

[Divisive Cotton]

er.... why?

Not that great really considering the outcome

 

[newbie]

table is turned now, mr smarty pants

even I got that pun.

 

[internetstalker]

er.... why?

Not that great really considering the outcome

pun

1. the humorous use of a word or phrase so as to emphasize or suggest its different meanings or applications, or the use of words that are alike or nearly alike in sound but different in meaning; a play on words.
2. the word or phrase used in this way.
–verb (used without object) 3. to make puns.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

oh yeah good one..

 

[newbie]

Serves you right for electing Brenda Dean

it's a fair point though. being an all purpose lefty during the 70s & early 80s involved a a tangled mess of solidarity with trades unionists who wanted to defend demarcations and differentials. Many, many disputes were about putting the sectional interests of one group way above other people but the basic premise- never cross a picket line, never criticise the workers at the front of the struggle- meant some rather tortuous mental gymnastics when arguing the case.

I'm not hearing many voices demanding the return of the power of closed entry craft unions.

 

[discokermit]

I'm not hearing many voices demanding the return of the power of closed entry craft unions.

i am.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

From an old post Pig did about Wapping:

"Then of course there was the famous iced horse piss story which I can testify to- as I witnessed the event during the Wapping Print dispute when a line of horses across The Highway pissed all over the road and it was so cold that it froze over the next hour and when it came time to do a baton charge the serial in front rushed down the road and all of them came to grief on the frozen horse piss....the sight of twenty or so plod in full bashing gear and shields all over the shop and covered in shit and piss....still makes me laugh."

 

[dennisr]

From an old post Pig did about Wapping:

"Then of course there was the famous iced horse piss story which I can testify to- as I witnessed the event during the Wapping Print dispute when a line of horses across The Highway pissed all over the road and it was so cold that it froze over the next hour and when it came time to do a baton charge the serial in front rushed down the road and all of them came to grief on the frozen horse piss....the sight of twenty or so plod in full bashing gear and shields all over the shop and covered in shit and piss....still makes me laugh."

appreciated thanks

 

[Nigel]

Got arrested twice there.
Chucked a bottle at a Rolls Royce and got a caution.
Got involved with a confrontation with the police and was arrested two hours later. They used some dodgy spray to find the people who were there.
Was absolutely bricking it at Holloway magistrates court, thought I was going to do six months in detention centre.

I think the height of the confrontation was on Mayday. I think police orchaestrated a confrontation by throwing a red flare wich they claimed was from the crowd and batton charged just going completely mental.

Those were the days.

 

[newbie]

i am.

interesting, would you care to expand? who wants craft unions?

 

[discokermit]

interesting, would you care to expand? who wants craft unions?

me.

 

[LindaR]

Serves you right for electing Brenda Dean

Not guilty, I'm NUJ. And my husband, who was Sogat, didn't vote for Brenda or the merger, so I don't blame him, either.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not guilty, I'm NUJ. And my husband, who was Sogat, didn't vote for Brenda or the merger, so I don't blame him, either.

If he had have done, would you have given him a Chinese burn (or worse)?

 

[derf]

We were fighting for our jobs....we were willing to change, adapt .....its all a bit weird suddenly thinking back about it all. In a way we lost everything.

You maybe but not the unions.
All they were doing is fighting against new technology and for their own power. They lost and were always going to do so.
I'm not saying I didn't think about the people about to loose their jobs but the papers would have gone bust anyway so they would still have been shagged.

You can't stop the world changing.

 

[glenquagmire]

That's a nice set of complete inaccuracies crammed into one posting.

 

[Zachor]

Just popped back (busy with wedding stuff) and couldnt' resist this thread. I was at Wapping not as a protestor or picket (for reasons I've already gone into I had zero sympathy with the print workers at the time) but as a photographer. My reading of the situation was that there was were violent attitudes and actions on both sides police and protestors. I look back on the dispute and you can see now how Murdoch was a whole lot cleverer than the unions on this one. He tempted the unions into violent confrontaton which lost the unions a lot of support from ordinary bods and gave them an extraordiary bad press.

Murdoch also exploited timing of the move to Wapping. I remember going into the Sun office in Bouverie Street and some of the production staff and many of the journalistic staff who I ws friendly with were lambasting the NGA for refusing to print an anti Scargill headline. This alienated many journos from the union (it was shortly after this that I ripped my own NUJ card). This was in my opinion an 'own goal' by the unions and this interference in editorial content by the inky fingers brigade helped to prise NUJ members like myself away from my own union.

It was quite obvious for anyone with more than half a brain that the technology had to change and that there was a lot of resistance from the Unions to this. Obviously the Union wanted to get the best deal for their members but there was a lot of unecessary obstruction on this point on the part of the unions.

There was very very little sympathy for the print workers on the part of other staff such as journalists. Many of us considered them arrogant timeservers who obstructed new developments.

I don't think the NGA and SOGAT etc realised just how unpopular and in some cases how hated they were. They arrogantly thought that it would be one out all out but people didn't fall for that and voted with their feet.

Looking back on it now I'd say it was the key point in the death of unions as a major political force in the countires poltics and economy. This has had both good and bad outcomes. Good in that businesses can be more dynamic (a friend revolutionised a certain area of press photography by being more flexible and not being bound by union rules) but bad in that wages and conditions have been attacked for ordianry workers over the long term.

It was a seminal event of the 1980's like the miners strike I cannot disagree with that.

The Wapping dispute was fucking brilliant personally for me at the time as I earned a shedload of money from covering the aggro and sold my pictures all over the place. Earned enough for a decent car IIRC and then some.

The negative long term effect of the Wapping dispute has been to show unions as emasculated talking shops which couldn't do fuck all. We are still living with this effect.

 

[dennisr]

There was very very little sympathy for the print workers on the part of other staff such as journalists. Many of us considered them arrogant timeservers who obstructed new developments.

Coming from Journalists the irony is not lost on me.

'arrogant timesever' - I'd use that as your thingy (under your name) if i was you Zachor. That or 'i'm alright jack'

 

[Zachor]

Coming from Journalists the irony is not lost on me.

I think many journos who worked for the Sun (and elsewhere) at the time who saw the interference in editorial content as being unacceptable and therefore the print unions shot themselves in the foot by antagonising potential support.

'arrogant timesever' - I'd use that as your thingy (under your name) if i was you Zachor. That or 'i'm alright jack'

LOL!

I'm Alright Jack was a good film.

 

[Nigel]

Heroic Defeats Of The Eighties.

I think many journos who worked for the Sun (and elsewhere) at the time who saw the interference in editorial content as being unacceptable and therefore the print unions shot themselves in the foot by antagonising potential support.



LOL!

I'm Alright Jack was a good film.

Editorial interference from Murdoch et al was alright then.
I think Wapping and the chain of events in this modernisation process destroyed a very vibrant culture that existed not only in printing, but also in Jounalism, publication et al. Just have to walk around Fleet St, Holben and other areas where this culture once existed to realise this, compared with twenty years ago.

The liquidation of the Chapels, that were notoriously sympathetic to Left Wing Trade Unionism was the aim of Thatcher & Murdoch, and the working class culture that existed in that part of the East End, to be filled with Yuppie Scumbags in a process of gentrification and liquidation of the working class and its' culture.

Recentely (2 years ago) reminiscing with a couple of people about Wapping dispute at commemoration of Cable St. Now to see demoralised underclass, alienating environment, and the docks filled with yuppy scumbags and affluent tourists.

I think at the time there was a Labour MP quoted saying how the left spent so much time talking about the class war, while Thatcherite Conservatism was too busy putting it into practice. How right she was.

 

[trevhagl]

I'm reading "Killing for Britain" at the mo. The politics are shite, but the information is very interesting.

It's a civil rights demo and 'loyalists', who have been given weapons training at the local army barracks, by British military intelligence officers, are on the streets taking part in the deliberate killing of unarmed civilians, who in the words of the author: "were in the wrong place at wrong time".

This all sanctioned at the highest level in the British government.

It should be added that the masters in power then didn't want too many unarmed civilians shot dead, as this would give a wrong impression to the worlds press.

I read that link, sounds like it could be interesting though it's slagged to fuck in the reviews - either it really is a load of bollocks or those writing the reviews are pissed off the truth has emerged - which do you think it is and what is the typing size like cos i'm a blind cunt!

 

[Zachor]

Editorial interference from Murdoch et al was alright then.
I think Wapping and the chain of events in this modernisation process destroyed a very vibrant culture that existed not only in printing, but also in Jounalism, publication et al. Just have to walk around Fleet St, Holben and other areas where this culture once existed to realise this, compared with twenty years ago.

Editorial policy is set by the newspapers owners whether an individual, a board of a management committee or even a Soviet, and the editorial staff.

I agree that a lot was lost as well as gained by the loss of the Fleet Street culture.

The liquidation of the Chapels, that were notoriously sympathetic to Left Wing Trade Unionism was the aim of Thatcher & Murdoch, and the working class culture that existed in that part of the East End, to be filled with Yuppie Scumbags in a process of gentrification and liquidation of the working class and its' culture.

Up to a point I agree with you on this point especially about the gentrification of the East End. My experience of dealing with my Chapel wasn't so good.

Recentely (2 years ago) reminiscing with a couple of people about Wapping dispute at commemoration of Cable St. Now to see demoralised underclass, alienating environment, and the docks filled with yuppy scumbags and affluent tourists.

Also agree. There was always room for dynamic little businesses and self employed people in the East London I remember. Not at all now. Councils are rapidly eviscerating all the metal bashing and similar businesses in favour of hotels and other businesses which are very vunerable to economic downturns like now.

I think at the time there was a Labour MP quoted saying how the left spent so much time talking about the class war, while Thatcherite Conservatism was too busy putting it into practice. How right she was.

Yup.

 

[cantsin]

Just popped back (busy with wedding stuff) and couldnt' resist this thread. I was at Wapping not as a protestor or picket (for reasons I've already gone into I had zero sympathy with the print workers at the time) but as a photographer. My reading of the situation was that there was were violent attitudes and actions on both sides police and protestors. I look back on the dispute and you can see now how Murdoch was a whole lot cleverer than the unions on this one. He tempted the unions into violent confrontaton which lost the unions a lot of support from ordinary bods and gave them an extraordiary bad press.

Murdoch also exploited timing of the move to Wapping. I remember going into the Sun office in Bouverie Street and some of the production staff and many of the journalistic staff who I ws friendly with were lambasting the NGA for refusing to print an anti Scargill headline. This alienated many journos from the union (it was shortly after this that I ripped my own NUJ card). This was in my opinion an 'own goal' by the unions and this interference in editorial content by the inky fingers brigade helped to prise NUJ members like myself away from my own union.

It was quite obvious for anyone with more than half a brain that the technology had to change and that there was a lot of resistance from the Unions to this. Obviously the Union wanted to get the best deal for their members but there was a lot of unecessary obstruction on this point on the part of the unions.

There was very very little sympathy for the print workers on the part of other staff such as journalists. Many of us considered them arrogant timeservers who obstructed new developments.

I don't think the NGA and SOGAT etc realised just how unpopular and in some cases how hated they were. They arrogantly thought that it would be one out all out but people didn't fall for that and voted with their feet.

Looking back on it now I'd say it was the key point in the death of unions as a major political force in the countires poltics and economy. This has had both good and bad outcomes. Good in that businesses can be more dynamic (a friend revolutionised a certain area of press photography by being more flexible and not being bound by union rules) but bad in that wages and conditions have been attacked for ordianry workers over the long term.

It was a seminal event of the 1980's like the miners strike I cannot disagree with that.

The Wapping dispute was fucking brilliant personally for me at the time as I earned a shedload of money from covering the aggro and sold my pictures all over the place. Earned enough for a decent car IIRC and then some.

The negative long term effect of the Wapping dispute has been to show unions as emasculated talking shops which couldn't do fuck all. We are still living with this effect.

ie : your a total lowlife scab who made a packet out of it - what a surprise

 

[Zachor]

ie : your a total lowlife scab who made a packet out of it - what a surprise

Yawn. Thats it don't look at the issues just shout 'scab'. Nothing changes.

I made money out of covering the event not shafting the strikers. Although I disagreed with a lot of the actions of the print workers at the time and disliked the closed shop as I believed it stifled people and was against peoples human rights to not join a union if they so chose as soon as I picked that camera up at Wapping it was just another job. My place was to record what happened and sell what I'd recorded.

I did more immoral things in my view now by sitting outside politicians Mistress's houses snapping them when they visited. I wouldn't do THAT now.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You maybe but not the unions.
All they were doing is fighting against new technology and for their own power. They lost and were always going to do so.
I'm not saying I didn't think about the people about to loose their jobs but the papers would have gone bust anyway so they would still have been shagged.

You can't stop the world changing.

Utterly inaccurate.
Wapping was as much about jobs shifting from one sector to another (from the print unions to the (hard-right) electricians as about "new technology" per se. No-one was trying to stop the world from changing. If they were, telexes and faxes would never have been allowed. What they were trying to stop was the disenfranchisement of an entire sector of employment.
As for the old argument about the papers going bust, it doesn't wash. Core advertisers stick with newspapers through thick and thin, it's only the irregulars that go elsewhere.

 

[Paulie]

Miners pickets were a long way from London...

Weren't the Kent collieries - Betteshanger, Tilmanstone and another one I can't remember - still open but under threat at that time?

I do remember Ken rattling collection buckets for the miners whilst taking a quick break from the GLC. I don't care what anyone might say; after Horace Cutler, Ken was the main man.

 

[discokermit]

some of the production staff and many of the journalistic staff who I ws friendly with were lambasting the NGA for refusing to print an anti Scargill headline. This alienated many journos from the union (it was shortly after this that I ripped my own NUJ card).

what was the headline?

 

[Fedayn]

what was the headline?

Probably the picture making it look mlike he was doing a nazi/fascist salute.