Wales Social Forum

[munkeeunit]

That does indeed sound like a bag of shite - you're right, and it clearly ain't anarchism to talk like a good libertarian talk and then fuck someone over on the minimum wage and p[ass it off as some kind of radical challenge.

This isn't something I've ever experienced - there are a lot of problems with the way that anarchists oganise - the biggest one, in my opinion is the way that informal hierarchies develop in libertarian groups that aren't kept in check, or are ignored, simply because the group calls itself anarchist, and therefore thinks it's somehow 'naturally' done away with the hierarchies already. Things like keeping groups truly equal and non-hierarchical need to be constantly worked on.
I've never come accross any big bossman anarchist hypocrites of the kind you mntion, though. Lucky me, by the sounds of it.

Anarchism certianly struggles to get over the hurdle of hierarchies. The reality of almost all groups - anarchist or otherwise - is that a handful of individuals will take the 'lead' and get the work done. To some anarchists this is inherently hierarchical, and to be done away with, which can create the impression that anarchists spend more time dismantling their own projects, instead of building them up.

I think it is healthy to try and limit the extent to which hierarchies build up, but in many ways it is unavoidable if jobs are to be done, especially if those complaining abnout hierarachies aren't doing any work themselves. Hierarchies are best dissolved by getting more hands on deck, but anarchism struggles to retain it's 'membership', partly due to the endless meetings about consensus and hierarchy.

I think in the end, and unfortunately, it comes down to personalities. At risk of overinflating my own self, I've found myself in a disturbingly hierarchical position in Bristol (mainly in terms of the decisions I can take in terms of the Bristol STW newsletter, circulation 3,000 odd), a position which I initially sought to occupy because I didn't trust others to occupy that position without abusing it for their own sectarian ends.

The Bristol STW newsletter is inclusive, and in that respect non-hierachical in terms of the output. a hierachical position has been used to break down the hierachy of publicity, and sectarianism, and help give a voice to everyone. At the same time, Bristol STW meetings are run on consensus, so as long as I don't abuse what I'm doing, the meetings don't need to be bogged down in the minutae of what ends up in the newsletter.

This, for the most part, seems to be a workable compromise between hierarchy and consensus, which many anarchists have also been very supportive of.

 

[neprimerimye]

I'll sumarise (and paraphrase) for everyone who missed it:

Nep: You are indeed a comedian - you anarchoid liberal scum.
Col: Every comedian needs a straight-man you authoritarian wanker.
Nep: I am indeed an authoritarian in the strictly political sense, but I'm also a jolly nice chap with a social conscience, and I'm authoritarian for all the right reasons - at least I'm not a wishy-washy liberal like you anarcho fool.
Col: Callin' me a liberal - you're a reformist! Ha! So there! All you want is a change of management at the top of society, you liberal reformist.
Nep: I think you'll find I want a fundamental change in the ownership of the means of production, you anarcho-lickspittle. Bugger off and talk to your greenpeace-scum friends and never trouble me again with your corrupt ideology.
Col: Whatever. Talk to the hand you liberal reformist. By the way - you going to see Black Mountain down the bay on thursday?


This public service broadcast was brought to you by an inattentive reader who happened upon this thread before the boards went down, and remembered the general gist (maybe).

Been off elsewhere so just catching up here. I did eyeball the Black Mountain Army and mighty they were too. Which is more than can be said for the turnout sadly.

Oh and I would never describe anarchists en masses (sic) as scum. Talked to a pleasant populist-socialist for a while. To be fair he did quite a good job defending his point of view. Once he finds a girl/boyfriend he'll be off unless coopted into the leadership. Too bright I suspect to tarry too long as mere timeserver. Unlike some I could mention.

 

[llantwit]

Been anywhere nice Nep?

 

[Col_Buendia]

Too bright I suspect to tarry too long as mere timeserver. Unlike some I could mention.

Wilma!!!!

 

[neprimerimye]

Been anywhere nice Nep?

I went to Barry Island once....

 

[llantwit]

Come on Nep - you can do it if you really try. Meaningless friendly conversation might seem like a waste of time but it does fulfill some functions:
It allows you to interact with fellow human beings, it allows you share a smile with others and connect for a fleeting moment.
It might not be historical materialism and it won't change the world - but it sometimes adds up to making the world a slightly more cheery place.

OK - so here's my line of thinking - you said:

... Been off elsewhere ...

It being summer, and my mind working like the avaerage hairdresser, I surmised you must have 'been away on holidays'... hence my question:

Been anywhere nice?

To which you usually tell me where you've been or put me right if my suggestion was erroneous.

 

[llantwit]

And Barry Island isn't nice.

 

[neprimerimye]

And Barry Island isn't nice.

It's horrid and terribly common.

 

[llantwit]

Quite.

 

[neprimerimye]

Quite.

However my dog enjoys it off season.

 

[Col_Buendia]

However my dog enjoys it off season.

I hope you don't let him shit on the beach!

 

[llantwit]

That's compulsory. And not just the dogs.
My parents wouldn't let me leave Barry Island without crapping on the beach. It's what the working classes do. Animals. I'm glad I ain't one any more. Woof.

 

[neprimerimye]

I hope you don't let him shit on the beach!

Considering the nature of the average Barryite it might seem ostentatious but I always pick up after the dog.

Oh and the dog is female.