Col_Buendia
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zog said:
Exactly!! Llantwit - or David Shayler as we know him at the meets!
Although his synopsis sort of missed out on my rapier-like wit and rhetorical repartee... 
Wales Social Forum
- Thread starter militant atheist
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Exactly!! Llantwit - or David Shayler as we know him at the meets!
Although his synopsis sort of missed out on my rapier-like wit and rhetorical repartee... munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
I can see that post ending up in an MI5 file, along with the other 1 million files on the left they claim to no-longer keep. They only now keep files on people suspected of terrorism, or so they say, which simply means that the 1 million closet lefties they've being keeping tabs on have simply had their files moved to the 'terrorist' filing cabinets next door.
Col_Buendia
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Well I hope they've got a fucking huge file on Llantwit. He killed the Queen Mother in her bed, you know!
munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
Which, considring the clumsly and often laughably inaccurate files they do have, would probably end us as something like 'Llanwit killed his queer mother's bard' which would lead to much head-scratching, but still none of them would have an independent enough brain to question the accuracy of their ridiculous files.
Col_Buendia
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"Wherefore art thou, Llantwit?" came the call from MI5! 
munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
I don't know what you're talking about. My MI5 records state only that you killed your 'queer mother's bard', and we have no juristiction over bard murders, and have no records regarding anyone murdering the Queen Mother in her bed.
In fact our files indicate that the Queen Mother's real name is Svetlana, she's 26, male and living in Iceland and currently working for Saddam Hussein, who is still in power, and president of Norway.
So, we have no intention of ever arresting you, sorry.
In fact our files indicate that the Queen Mother's real name is Svetlana, she's 26, male and living in Iceland and currently working for Saddam Hussein, who is still in power, and president of Norway.
So, we have no intention of ever arresting you, sorry.
"In fact our files indicate that the Queen Mother's real name is Svetlana, she's 26, male and living in Iceland and currently working for Saddam Hussein, who is still in power, and president of Norway." Hmmmm.... have you ever read a book calle 'the aleppo button' by Ellis Sharp. Theres a chapter in there about Stalin faking his death, turning up in a seaside town in England and being elected as a tory MP......
munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
nwnm said:
Never read it, but I call him Uncle Joe
(the tory bastard 
)munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
Just a reminder of the Cardiff Social Forum message board.
http://p2.forumforfree.com/csf.html
It's a bit slow at the moment. I tend to redirect people to boards like urban, and indymedia, which are well established and do much the same job, if a lot more loosely.
The Bristol Social Forum is done differently. It's got over 600 subs, and it's more an announcements list, which all subscribers can post to, but it's not encouraged for debate, more announcements.
Which works very well.
We've also publicised it to all areas which are geographically regional to Bristol, which includes Cardiff, and National Welsh events are also welcome. People in Bristol do like to know what's happening in Cardiff and Wales.
Please subscribe if you want to.
Visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bristolsocialforum/
Send a blank email to this address, and then reply to the confirmation message.
[email protected]
http://p2.forumforfree.com/csf.html
It's a bit slow at the moment. I tend to redirect people to boards like urban, and indymedia, which are well established and do much the same job, if a lot more loosely.
The Bristol Social Forum is done differently. It's got over 600 subs, and it's more an announcements list, which all subscribers can post to, but it's not encouraged for debate, more announcements.
Which works very well.
We've also publicised it to all areas which are geographically regional to Bristol, which includes Cardiff, and National Welsh events are also welcome. People in Bristol do like to know what's happening in Cardiff and Wales.
Please subscribe if you want to.
Visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bristolsocialforum/
Send a blank email to this address, and then reply to the confirmation message.
[email protected]
munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
llantwit said:Ah, the memories. The social forum boards that were used to much more lively than this lot - I wasted days of my life on the old boards getting into very long debates with trots.
Will check out the new ones another time.
Ta MU.
I do like arguing with authoritarian trots.
I also like arguing with anarchists who have bizarrely confused anarchism with extreme free market capitalism
NGO's are more tricky to argue with, because they're politics are very hidden.
I just like arguing.
We have been encouraging Bristol people to join in the debate on the Cardiff Forum, but we're also aware of the risk that it gets flooded by english, which would be bad, but there's a debate of sorts in the 'website matters' at the moment, where we're askng for a Bristol area on the Wales boards, which I think would keep us nicely contained, while maybe helping to liven things up.
munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
I was thinking more the type of anarchist who is very market driven, and conflates community level self-sufficiency, with their own private profit making ventures. The more clunky term being - trustafarian - but that's a little bit dodgy, with an unfortunate racist tone to it (though I know it's not meant that way.)
My preferred, and more cutting name for it is Anarcho-Thatcherite, although they often don't realise that this is very much what they seem to support, in terms of small business economics.
I'm very much in favour of local automony, and widespread community level business ventures, but a lot of anarchists do seem to be fly by nights who are already more than one foot into the door of 'i'm alright jack' style capitalism, which is turned a blind eye to a lot of the time, in the name of holding together the unofficial anarchist 'party'.
It's not anarchism, that's for sure.
I hope that's put a cat amongst pigeons.
My preferred, and more cutting name for it is Anarcho-Thatcherite, although they often don't realise that this is very much what they seem to support, in terms of small business economics.
I'm very much in favour of local automony, and widespread community level business ventures, but a lot of anarchists do seem to be fly by nights who are already more than one foot into the door of 'i'm alright jack' style capitalism, which is turned a blind eye to a lot of the time, in the name of holding together the unofficial anarchist 'party'.
It's not anarchism, that's for sure.
I hope that's put a cat amongst pigeons.
I'm still not sure I know what you mean - the few trustafarians I've encountered (hardly any (if any at all) in Wales - most in London) are dropouts and lifestylists into the squatting scene, and involved with a range of different parts of the movement - none of them own businesses.munkeeunit said:It's not anarchism, that's for sure.
I hope that's put a cat amongst pigeons.
I do know some anarchists (who'd probably only loosely self-apply the term) who support and get involved with small-scale community oriented businesses, and even apply for government or local-authority grants to start them up or keep them going. You can debate the rights and wrongs of relying on state money like that - but that's not really what you're getting at, I suspect.
As far as prescribing what anarchism 'is' or 'isn't' goes, I'm not gonna get involved with that - not really my bag.
On a different slant - I've heard there's a loose grouping of extreme market fundamentalists in the US who self-apply the term anarchism - but they have nothing to do with the history of class-struggle anarchism, classical anarchism, or the kind of social anarchism that I find interesting. They're just mad fruitloops, I reckon.
munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
osterberg said:
I think sometimes it's more a general attitude, at all levels.
Many anarchists seem to concinve themselves that they're small business venture, where they pay minimum wage, is somehow different to any other small business venture, simply because they otherwise define themselves as anarchist. The profit making business is neatly squared, and reinvented, in their mind as something which it really isn't at all.
There's nothing wrong with trying to set up small businesses, but to pretend that the profit making enterprise, paying minimum wage, is anything other than that individuals slice of the capitalist cake, is intellectually dishonest. It may be preferable to Tesco's, but it's still free market capitalism for personal, not community, gain.
If we added up all the businesses run by anarchists, and declared them as community ventures, we still wouldn't be a microdot closer to an anarchist society than we are at present. It's a form of ideological accounting scam on both a personal level of the small business, up to the corporatism of the Body Shop.
Again - I think this 'many anarchists' stuff could be seen as a bit misleading, munks. It's clear that there must be a few that you know, like... but I know a lot of anarchists, and none of them own a business of any kind as far as I know. Most of them are wage slaves, like. Some don't work at all if they can help it (but are not trusties relying on mum and dad, btwmunkeeunit said:
), some are union activists, some are musicians or artists, some are office fodder, some do manual work, some are in various public services, some work in service industries, and some are academics.But I'm not sure that what they do to survive is of that much importance to me - as long as they aren't cops, politicians (with very few exceptions), or bosses. We are more than what we do to make a living (although it does matter to an extent, I guess) - and very few of us on the left are lucky enough to have our political views and work lives overlap completely.
munkeeunit
sumptuous lushness
I've known many anarchists over the years, and work with many anarchists on political projects, but I've also known many anarchists to do what I've described above, and call it anarchism.
autonomist beliefs seem to easily slip into 'i'm alright jack' attitudes, if people don't keep an eye on themselves, from my experience. Champagne Socialists seem to be the lefts other equivalent of this.
autonomist beliefs seem to easily slip into 'i'm alright jack' attitudes, if people don't keep an eye on themselves, from my experience. Champagne Socialists seem to be the lefts other equivalent of this.
That does indeed sound like a bag of shite - you're right, and it clearly ain't anarchism to talk like a good libertarian talk and then fuck someone over on the minimum wage and p[ass it off as some kind of radical challenge.munkeeunit said:
This isn't something I've ever experienced - there are a lot of problems with the way that anarchists oganise - the biggest one, in my opinion is the way that informal hierarchies develop in libertarian groups that aren't kept in check, or are ignored, simply because the group calls itself anarchist, and therefore thinks it's somehow 'naturally' done away with the hierarchies already. Things like keeping groups truly equal and non-hierarchical need to be constantly worked on.
I've never come accross any big bossman anarchist hypocrites of the kind you mntion, though. Lucky me, by the sounds of it.
