Volkswagen accused of cheating US emissions tests!

Discussion in 'transport' started by weltweit, Sep 19, 2015.

  1. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

    The investigation is looking into the possibility that VW has a system of running their cars in a special mode to pass US emissions tests, this special mode is then switched off in normal driving where emissions will then be way above permitted levels.

    The concern covers VW diesel cars, VW has sold nearly 500,000 in the period in question, these will now be recalled and must be made to comply with emissions regulations. There is also the potential for a massive fine if this allegation is proven.

    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
  2. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    I'd read management had actually admitted it already:
    VW accused of using 'defeat device' software in 482,000 diesels to skirt U.S. clean-air rules

    Massive fines ahoy I suppose. It was also pointed out that as well as the obvious fraud they'd have benefited from various federal tax breaks etc .
  3. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Yep, massive fines indeed, if they did do this they will have only themselves to blame!

    From the Guardian article:
    smmudge likes this.
  4. 8ball


    Fucking hell, you'd think they'd have way too much to lose to try something so dumb. :facepalm:
    keybored likes this.
  5. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Indeed, I had similar thoughts
    sankara likes this.
  6. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

  7. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Although emission testing is mostly a joke - completely unrepresentative of real life - they are going to be in deep shit on this.

    Passing an emissions test for a short period of time is relatively easy. However in the long term you don't get something for nothing in this regard, so retrofitting something to pass under the bar will be hugely expensive, if it's even possible at all.
  8. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist slowtime

    just shows what total denialists and cunts run these businesses. For the sake of a profit.
  9. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    I am pretty sure some people will lose their jobs over this, and that could include some at the top of VW.
  10. Chilli.s

    Chilli.s changed the little words

    500,000 refunds to misled customers?
  11. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist slowtime

    they should be going to jail. Because either

    a) they believe the denialist scientists they've paid to tell them GW isn't true

    b) they believe in GW but decided to flout the rules anyway because they don't give a shit, how dare gubbermint tell me I can't put arsenic in bread?

    salt mines
    ddraig likes this.
  12. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    VW Shares are down 20%
  13. bi0boy

    bi0boy Power User

    They could fit petrol engines. :D
  14. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Apparently VW have struggled to make sales in the US and had just launched a new strategy to win share. This scandal could royally fuck them because apart from the possible $18bn fine from the authorities they will also probably have to compensate all their customers who bought the offending vehicles.
  15. Chz

    Chz Stark Raving Sane

    For $18B, they could buy the senate and tell the EPA to fuck off. I'd be surprised if they paid 1/10th that.
  16. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    I hear on the radio that Germany is now going to investigate if VW also cheated on their emissions tests.

    What might this do to the resale value of VW TDI vehicles?
  17. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    I still have a 2013 VW Golf in the USA, on lease since I moved there over 3 years ago. For the next 15 days anyway, it goes back on the 6th.

    Can I has some money plz? :mad:
    weltweit likes this.
  18. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    You laugh, but they might have to effectively re-engine cars or pay the equivalent fine. It would be insanely expensive, and there's no obvious evidence that they actually have a technical solution.
  19. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Except that if the allegation is true, that they have an engine management mode that limits emissions to meet US standards. And that in normal use this does not apply thus giving engines full power. It might be possible to tweak the ECU such that the limited emissions mode operates all the time, though this would likely result in an underpowered vehicle which customers would probably not be satisfied with.
  20. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    It's unlikely that it can be solved in software.

    The hard part of this cheat is identifying the context, i.e. figuring out what parameters reflect an emissions test (I don't know if it's a driven routine or just a static exhaust test like on an MOT). Within those parameters, bodging the test is easy - just temporarily change the fuelling. But it might be that in normal driving, the car is undriveable, unresponsive or unreliable, e.g. it cokes up.

    Later VW and competitor cars use AdBlue (pig urine) but it's probably not easy to retrofit such a system. Also some emissions stuff like gas recirculation is an inherent characteristic of the engine, i.e. the block itself.
  21. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    What is adblue? I haven't heard of it.
  22. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    weltweit likes this.
  23. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    So it might be possible to retrofit DEF systems to the VW TDI engines involved - at some cost obviously, but it might be one of the alternative solutions for VW.
  24. Surely this will be very hard to fix, as if the cars could easily pass the emissions tests then they would be made that way in the first place?

    And BP paid around $18bn in fines, don't see why VW would get similar, PLUS having to sort out the cars.



  25. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Maybe, but this would be one of the most involved recalls in modern history. This is what I mean about it being of the magnitude of re-engining them. Making a technical modification on the factory production line is one thing, but extensively modifying all the cars already in the wild is dramatically different. I'm not sure it'll even happen - unless their eventual bargain with the US government grants them a waiver to allow those cars on the road, which would be a poor precedent, they'll probably have to scrap them and produce a very favourable settlement for all owners.
  26. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Assuming that the allegation is true, and if the boss of VW has apologised it seems it might be, I wonder how many people at VW were aware of this, and how many senior people were in that group?
  27. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Well, it won't have been one bad apple. It's not like this would have been a secret, isolated project; there will have been a whole chain of explicit approval for this behaviour, and then probably some more implicit approval as people found out how the product behaved.

    The spectrum of manufacturing fuckups goes something like:

    - didn't know about a mistake
    - someone knew about a mistake but processes failed to deal with it before bad things happened
    - someone knew about a mistake but wilfully covered it up before bad things happened
    - someone knew about a mistake but wilfully covered it up after bad things happened
    - wasn't a mistake, deliberately did something wrong on purpose

    with this being very much towards the latter.

    Also amongst the US gov't and the consumers, don't forget the shareholders, who've lost 20% of their investment today and will also want heads to roll.
  28. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

  29. pocketscience

    pocketscience Well-Known Member

    GM only paid a 900m dollar fine for their dodgy ignition switches that lead to over 100 deaths and 200 odd injuries.
    This could be seen as being worse as it's deceitful against the state rather than bad engineerig, but 18bn seems way ott
  30. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    GM didn't do it on purpose.

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