Vista
- Thread starter UnderOpenSky
- Start date
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
support for xp atm runs till 2010 however i'd expect that this will be extended till 2015/16 til the brand new OS is out...jæd said:
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
jæd said:So why stick with them...?
Because as been discussed to death, it's easier and cheaper to stick with them. Linux and Mac have been around for years and have made very little in-roads. There are now viable alternatives, but very few are making the swtich.
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
sojourner said:Bollocks, frankly. If no one ever complains about it, then they continue to get away with murder. They do anyway, but you can't expect everyone to simply lie down and take it
They've got to lie down and take it, or they'll go under. That's why everyone hates MS, they own the world!
Again, I'm not defending MS, I'm saying that we all know how they are, so surely it's up to the developers to know the game and survive it?
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
GarfieldLeChat said:
Yep, but I can't see anyone coming along to stop the bully, so developers should work out a way to avoid a beating in the playground.
Pingu
Credo
tbh the developer and beta prog ran for several months prior to it being released.
it is a bit of a pain in the arse though when stuff stops working.
i run vista and like it, i have found it in the main to be more stable and much easier to use than xp once yoiu get used toi the interface.
my only bitch is with my graphics cards and one prog that I use. but its easily worked arround (just not as pretty as it could be)
it is a bit of a pain in the arse though when stuff stops working.
i run vista and like it, i have found it in the main to be more stable and much easier to use than xp once yoiu get used toi the interface.
my only bitch is with my graphics cards and one prog that I use. but its easily worked arround (just not as pretty as it could be)
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
looks at google coffs then of course has it pointed out to him that once the lion is dead a new lion might be even worse...ChrisFilter said:
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
sojourner said:
This gets to the heart of my point. I wouldn't expect a small developer to have a fix overnight, I have every sympathy with them, but it's been 18 months since they had the means to make the relevant fixes. They should have done it by now.
It's not necessarily right or fair but that's the world of Windows programming.
ChrisFilter said:
But for how much longer...? Linux (in the guise of Ubuntu and others) is changing fast. A year ago Ubuntu was a lot clunkier than it is now. Its only since Gutsy that people are looking at it seriously. Next year it will be a lot more slicker...
People will only put up with crap from Microsoft for so long... And unless Microsoft pull something out of the bag soon, I'm guessing Vista will be the last mass-market Windows OS. I'm really expecting Microsoft to have to re-engineer itself internally to concentrate on shorter development cycles to do this...
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
GarfieldLeChat said:
Well, quite. They look to be even worse.
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
jæd said:
Granted, linux is getting ever better (and by that I mean easier to use and tinker with). Peugeot now use linux on all desktops, Dell now sell desktops and laptops with linux installed, the Asus EEE runs on linux. All this still only accounts for a fraction of a percent of commercial market share though, surely?
People have no choice (at present, nor in the near future) about putting up with MS. That's the way it is.
I can't agree that Vista will be the last, not in any way. That would an MS fuck up of biblical proportions.
ChrisFilter said:
People as individuals, or people as employees...? I'd argue that unless you use something very exotic individuals can always switch, at least to Mac... For companies it is harder, but I'm thinking most companies won't be completing a switch to Vista until 2010. You really think they will be moving from that any time soon...?
Personally I'd think that if Microsoft have engineered a situation where there is "no choice" thats a very good reason to try something different...! (If only to avoid having all eggs in one basket)
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
software assurance and legacy is what M$ have they really couldn't give a fig about home users when they have preffered contracts etc which means that sys admins will always go for the most supported kit by default. until there's commercial support where any old MSC can walk in and know it then there won't be the switch to linux or anything else merely becuase of the prohibitive cost in retraining and employing qualified techies..jæd said:
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
jæd said:
Individuals can switch, and pretty easily, but most people know computers as Windows. Get them using a Mac and it'll feel weird to them and they'll wonder over to the PC section of the shop and breathe a sigh of relief when it all feels 'normal'. Windows PCs are used in the office, in schools, so people use them in the home because they're cheap, highly functional, look pretty (now that Vista has been launched) and because everyone else uses them.
Macs aren't really a viable option in the corporate world, and neither is Linux until MS Office runs without a hassle, this is never going to happen.
The SME market is already switching to Vista as they buy new machines one by one, rather than in leased batches.
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
GarfieldLeChat said:
And that!
ChrisFilter said:
Most people see change as bad. Its quite hard to see change as good if you haven't experienced it before...
ChrisFilter said:
So why I (and my co-workers) am using Microsoft Office 2003 on a Ubuntu workstation at work...? If your interested, it took about 15 mins to install it. At the process was done in the a gui, no command-line was used.
I've seen people working in our company using Macs. There are also several corps using them, Google included.
Hint: saying "never" when you work in IT is a bad idea...
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
jæd said:So why I (and my co-workers) am using Microsoft Office 2003 on a Ubuntu workstation at work...? If your interested, it took about 15 mins to install it. At the process was done in the a gui, no command-line was used.
I've seen people working in our company using Macs. There are also several corps using them, Google included.
Hint: saying "never" when you work in IT is a bad idea...
I know how to use MS apps in linux, I was using WINE years ago. My point is that an IT Director is rarely going to say: "great news, lads. we're going to switch everyone over to use linux. We'll need to buy MS Office, and a program that'll allow it to run on the new OS. This also means complete retraining for all our staff, and a fucking huge rollout programme that'll no doubt cause huge, huge, losses in productivity"
This has happened, as I mentioned earlier, Peugeot have done it, but it's hardly going to be common.
Of course corps use the odd Mac, but I would be very, very suprised to learn of any major corps that use Macs as their corporate backbone.
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
sojourner said:Tell you what filter, for someone who's not defending MS, you do a pretty good job of sounding like someone who is!
You've clearly missed the point then.
In summary:
Microsoft are utter cunts, the release of Vista made life very difficult for smaller developers in an already competitive marketplace, the whole launch was shoddy and they probably should have waited another six months. But: that's life, it's not going to change, the developers need to sink or swim. Microsoft being Microsoft is no excuse for not updating you programs when you've had fucking ages to do it, Microsoft have been like this since the word go.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
points out to filter that even M$ run some of their systems on a mac back bone 
ChrisFilter said:
I'm not talking about WINE a few years ago. I'm talking about Crossover *now*. Its back to the "Linux is changing rapidly" point. You know about a few years ago, but its all changed now.
ChrisFilter said:
So would I. I'd be hoping they would use something decent from IBM or Sun to do that task. Macs (like Windows) are good for the desktop and perhaps as an office server.
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
GarfieldLeChat said:points out to filter that even M$ run some of their systems on a mac back bone
Xbox development?
kained&able
Here for the football.
Microsft will continue to demand everyone confroms to thier practices untill a product is released that can effectivly compete. Look whats happening with the web browsers.
Ie, buggy bloated piece of non standards confoming shite, been the standard for ages. Firefox comes along is a hell of a lot better and takes 25% of its market share, while those who kow anything use opera.
Same is happening with the o/s. Microsft buggy clunky annoying bit of software, all thats needed is a compnay to convince people that they offer a better package then microsoft. Thats no where near yet, so vista will reign supreme soon.
I remember when xp came out and everyone insisted that 2000 was a lot better as it was more stable, everyone was wrong then and is going to be wrong again.
dave
Ie, buggy bloated piece of non standards confoming shite, been the standard for ages. Firefox comes along is a hell of a lot better and takes 25% of its market share, while those who kow anything use opera.
Same is happening with the o/s. Microsft buggy clunky annoying bit of software, all thats needed is a compnay to convince people that they offer a better package then microsoft. Thats no where near yet, so vista will reign supreme soon.
I remember when xp came out and everyone insisted that 2000 was a lot better as it was more stable, everyone was wrong then and is going to be wrong again.
dave
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
jæd said:
So I could run gutsy, put the MS Office CD in the drive, and it'd install?
jæd said:
Poor wording on my part, what I meant was that end-users in corporations will be using Windows PCs in the vast majority of cases. Is this wrong? Do any major corps run Macs instead of PCs as standard?
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
no they weren't... xp is merely 2000xp in it's iteration in fact there's little difference between the code for 2000 and xp at all barring the fact that xp is rewritten in .net...kained&able said:
ChrisFilter said:
You could run Gutsy, launch Crossover, put the CD and it will install. Once its installed selecting MS Word from the Gnome menu will make it run. (Can also run it from double-clicking a file)
ChrisFilter said:
Google, for one... (New employee get the option of Windows, Apple, or Ubuntu)
kained&able
Here for the football.
dude i remember people saying it, they might be wrong(in fact that was my point) but loads of eople were saying xp was a bit crap when it first came out.
Ignoring the plug and play(which didn't really work properly for a while) and the better wizzards and more usful control panel and stuff. Seems to me peeps are doing the same with vista.
dave
Ignoring the plug and play(which didn't really work properly for a while) and the better wizzards and more usful control panel and stuff. Seems to me peeps are doing the same with vista.
dave
kained&able
Here for the football.
dude i remember people saying it, they might be wrong(in fact that was my point) but loads of eople were saying xp was a bit crap when it first came out.
Ignoring the plug and play(which didn't really work properly for a while) and the better wizzards and more usful control panel and stuff. Seems to me peeps are doing the same with vista.
dave
Ignoring the plug and play(which didn't really work properly for a while) and the better wizzards and more usful control panel and stuff. Seems to me peeps are doing the same with vista.
dave
Similar threads
