Violent mugger gets little slap on wrist

[Dubversion]

christ, there's some ignorant reactionary crap on this thread

blagsta - i'll leave you to it, i don't have the heart for it.

 

[TopCat]

I don't think it's as simple as that. IME, dig into the past of most "nasty bastards" and there is some trauma, abuse or neglect. This is not excusing and not negating that people have choices and not saying that people don't deserve punishment. However, people also deserve a chance to understand and think about their anger. Merely locking people up solves precisely fuck all.

Locking up people solves the pronblem of them inflicting their awful behaviour on others for the time that they are in prison. Given that many violent offenders are very busy people, this makes the community safer for time the git is in nick.

 

[TopCat]

Fucks sake.

No one is saying that everyone who experiences x will go on to do y.

Quit the roll eyes you patronising git.

If people act like bastards to others they deserve to be held to account.

 

[TopCat]

Who has mentioned excusing?

Your posts setting out that society should be more supportive and listen to those who dish out shit to others reads as you wanting to make excuse for, and perhaps offer cuddles to the offenders. Most people don't agree and want the cunts punished.

 

[Blagsta]

Locking up people solves the pronblem of them inflicting their awful behaviour on others for the time that they are in prison. Given that many violent offenders are very busy people, this makes the community safer for time the git is in nick.

And when they get out?

 

[poster342002]

Locking up people solves the pronblem of them inflicting their awful behaviour on others for the time that they are in prison. Given that many violent offenders are very busy people, this makes the community safer for time the git is in nick.

That's the view I take nowadays. Believe it or not, I used to hold views very similar to Blagsta and Dubersion et al. But over recent years I've heard too many first-hand accounts of how perpetrators commit appalling atrocities and then spin a "butter-wouldn't-melt" act for the benefit of the right people. As soon as those people are out the door, the beatings/abuse/muggings etc resume.

 

[Blagsta]

Quit the roll eyes you patronising git.

If people act like bastards to others they deserve to be held to account.

Who is arguing otherwise?

P.S.
I'm rolling my eyes at the stupid reactionary bullshit on this thread.

 

[Blagsta]

Your posts setting out that society should be more supportive and listen to those who dish out shit to others reads as you wanting to make excuse for, and perhaps offer cuddles to the offenders. Most people don't agree and want the cunts punished.

Hey, instead of reading what you imagine I wrote, why not read what I actually wrote?

 

[Giles]

what simplistic bullshit.

I don't think that this is simplistic at all. If someone violently assaults and threatens many people to nick their money, mobile phones etc, then that is wrong, and that person needs removing from society.

This was not a one-off incident, these guys were part of a gang who went out night after night with the sole intent of robbing people and using violence and threat of lethal violence to do so.

We do not need scum like this on our streets, or frankly, in our country.

Giles..

 

[Blagsta]

That's the view I take nowadays. Believe it or not, I used to hold views very similar to Blagsta and Dubersion et al. But over recent years I've heard too many first-hand accounts of how perpetrators commit appalling atrocities and then spin a "butter-wouldn't-melt" act for the benefit of the right people. As soon as those people are out the door, the beatings/abuse/muggings etc resume.

That's a problem with youth workers, probation officers, counsellors etc not receiving adequate training, funding and support. People are complex, these issues are hard to deal with. That is not a reason to shy away from dealing with them.

 

[Dubversion]

or frankly, in our country.

care to expand on that a bit?

 

[TopCat]

And when they get out?

Offer support whilst they are in the nick and support after they leave. i would personally agree with:

• Higher levels of immediately paid benefits.
• Assistance in gaining employment
• A loan for deposit and so on to be able to rent a place
• Support for gaining training.
• Support to come off and stay off drugs.

 

[Blagsta]

I don't think that this is simplistic at all. If someone violently assaults and threatens many people to nick their money, mobile phones etc, then that is wrong, and that person needs removing from society.

This was not a one-off incident, these guys were part of a gang who went out night after night with the sole intent of robbing people and using violence and threat of lethal violence to do so.

We do not need scum like this on our streets, or frankly, in our country.

Giles..

I understand why people think like you do - because its easier and more comfortable to do so. However, it gets us precisely nowhere.

 

[TopCat]

Who is arguing otherwise?

P.S.
I'm rolling my eyes at the stupid reactionary bullshit on this thread.

Well you are just comeing across as a daily mail social work parody.

 

[Blagsta]

Offer support whilst they are in the nick and support after they leave. i would personally agree with:

• Higher levels of immediately paid benefits.
• Assistance in gaining employment
• A loan for deposit and so on to be able to rent a place
• Support for gaining training.
• Support to come off and stay off drugs.

So we basically agree then? So why the hostility?

 

[TopCat]

That's a problem with youth workers, probation officers, counsellors etc not receiving adequate training, funding and support. People are complex, these issues are hard to deal with. That is not a reason to shy away from dealing with them.

Probation officers are useless cunts.

 

[Blagsta]

Well you are just comeing across as a daily mail social work parody.

That's in your head TC. Try reading what I write and using your noggin, rather than trying to fit me into some silly little stereotype you have.

 

[Blagsta]

Probation officers are useless cunts.

Yes, I would agree. Probation are useless. However, they don't have to be, given the right training and support.

 

[Dubversion]

Well you are just comeing across as a daily mail social work parody.

and you lot are coming across as a reactionary Little Englander, Hang Em & Flog Em parody.


I expect this sort of shit from someone like poster12432354, he's a moron of some long standing..

 

[TopCat]

So we basically agree then? So why the hostility?

Bacause I want to see the bastards punished for their behaviour. Your posts gave the impression that you thought punishment was useless. I am all up for increased support to avoid re offending behaviour but never as a substitution for punishment. They have to go together.

 

[poster342002]

That's a problem with youth workers, probation officers, counsellors etc not receiving adequate training, funding and support. People are complex, these issues are hard to deal with. That is not a reason to shy away from dealing with them.

For some people, no amount of training will erase the bizarre and entrenched ideologies, doctrines and attitudes they hold. These people are simply worng for that line of work.

And, sadly, sometimes people are also very straightforward and there simply are no redeeming qualities left in them.

 

[TopCat]

and you lot are coming across as a reactionary Little Englander, Hang Em & Flog Em parody.


I expect this sort of shit from someone like poster12432354, he's a moron of some long standing..

I like the inferred slur!

 

[Blagsta]

Bacause I want to see the bastards punished for their behaviour. Your posts gave the impression that you thought punishment was useless.

Maybe you could read my posts a little more carefully. I think that punishment on its own is useless.

I am all up for increased support to avoid re offending behaviour but never as a substitution for punishment. They have to go together.

Have I argued otherwise?

 

[Blagsta]

For some people, no amount of training will erase the bizarre and entrenched ideologies, doctrines and attitudes they hold. These people are simply worng for that line of work.

And, sadly, sometimes people are also very straightforward and there simply are no redeeming qualities left in them.

Yes, I agree. Is that a reason just to stop thinking about human behaviour altogether?

 

[TopCat]

Ok, emotion here and anger specifically has made me read between the lines of you posts and conclude perhaps incorrectly that you prefer non punishment solutions. I apologise.

 

[untethered]

If the offender decides? Just like that? With no help?

What kind of help do you think someone might need to decide that mugging and assaulting people isn't the most honourable way to live one's life? More's the point, who do you think should provide that help and who should pay for it?

You see, most of these questions don't require a great deal of insight or expert assistance. They just require a bit of honesty, empathy and self-discipline.

Some people's offending behaviour may have complex psychological roots but for the most part, it's based on what is best described as sheer wickedness.

 

[detective-boy]

Yes, I would agree. Probation are useless. However, they don't have to be, given the right training and support.

Congratulations on dismissing an entire profession ... the vast majority of whom, for most of the time, do a reasonable job in very trying circumstances and who succeed in preventing an awful lot of re-offending. Bit "reactionary", no?

 

[Blagsta]

Ok, emotion here and anger specifically has made me read between the lines of you posts and conclude perhaps incorrectly that you prefer non punishment solutions. I apologise.

Thank you. Yes, it's an emotive subject and powerful emotions can cause us to act in irrational ways. Which is partly my point.

 

[TopCat]

Thank you. Yes, it's an emotive subject and powerful emotions can cause us to act in irrational ways. Which is partly my point.

Hey, I never stabbed you and nicked your phone...

 

[untethered]

Yes, I would agree. Probation are useless. However, they don't have to be, given the right training and support.

There have been moves in the right direction, recasting the role of the probation service as being primarily about public protection rather than providing professional assistance to offenders to minimise the consequences of their offending to themselves.