Violent anti-G8-protests in Rostock....Yay or Nay ?

[Groucho]

dontcha just love kids...

to say something is 'counter-revolutionary' is to suggest that the aim is to undermine or overthrow a progressive revolution. It could arguably be used in the context of right-wing actions aimed at destabilising the Chavez Government insofar as the regime is carrying out progressive change that he and others describe as a revolution. Unless the poster thinks the demonstrators have a revolution to defend or are in the process of carrying out a revolutionary transformation of society the words used here are misplaced and sound silly.

However, the state is tooled up and agressive; angry young people throwing stones at heavily armed riot police mobilising to defend the indefensible, do not deserve condemnation. We might disagree with this or that tactic, but we should never be on the side of the cops.

 

[kyser_soze]

Of course it may not be the best tactic at all times, but in terms of making an impact and attracting attention to our struggle it is useful.

What 'impact' does it make? Disrupts a few businesses, costs some money and pisses the locals off. Media gets to portray anarchists as macho idiots, rest of society gets to go 'typical' and anarchist groups get another opporunity to split into ever smaller splinter groups as they disagree over protest tactics.

Anyone who thinks throwing bricks at the police who are defending the mass murdering scumbags of the G8 leadership is violent is sorely mistaken.

A classic quote on how little anarchists like biff actually have in common with the way everyone else thinks. Throwing a brick at someone is violent in the eyes of seemingly every else, except someone like yourself.

Until you actually understand that your class rants have no impact or influence over people outside anarchist groups, or that most people would regard the above as utterly ridiculous you'll carry on with useless protesting like this and fail to miss the big picture - you need to convince people first that they are capable of governing themselves and that hierarchy free mass cooperation is a better way forward than an oppressive hierarchy. But that would be FAR to difficult - better to feed the ego and throw bricks at the police and kick a few windows in.

 

[Idaho]

Of course it may not be the best tactic at all times, but in terms of making an impact and attracting attention to our struggle it is useful.

It is such a poor tactic, and so ill-thought-out that it suggests to me it isn't a tactic at all. It's an end in itself. A chance for a ruck.

If the aim was to disrupt the G8 meeting there could be numerous ways of doing it other than fighting a large organised and prepared police force nearby.

 

[Fruitloop]

Like what?

 

[biff curtains]

Like what?

Incantations? sneaking in and putting LSD in the water? Wishful thinking? I'm sure there must be a way...

 

[biff curtains]

Until you actually understand that your class rants have no impact or influence over people outside anarchist groups, or that most people would regard the above as utterly ridiculous you'll carry on with useless protesting like this and fail to miss the big picture

lol :d

Funny how come every gerry me and others have spoken to since Rostock has been supportive...

you need to convince people first that they are capable of governing themselves and that hierarchy free mass cooperation is a better way forward than an oppressive hierarchy. But that would be FAR to difficult - better to feed the ego and throw bricks at the police and kick a few windows in.

How perceptive! Yes none of the people I was with have ever, ever done any action other than start rucks with the police. Mein Gott! None of the 5000 or so "black block" here have ever been involved in community action, workplace organising, anti debt work, prisoner support, immigrant work or any other type of promoting self organisation. And yes every single other person from the christian youth organiser in twinset and pearls I sat next to on the train yesterday to the woman behind the bar of the pub I just had lunch in that I have spoken to since then has been really angry and upset about the bb's behaviour!

Or not.

 

[butchersapron]

Incantations? sneaking in and putting LSD in the water? Wishful thinking? I'm sure there must be a way...

Get Bonobo and Bill Gates on the case. They could sort it. They sorted that other thing i saw on the telly.

 

[kyser_soze]

lol :d

Funny how come every gerry me and others have spoken to since Rostock has been supportive...



How perceptive! Yes none of the people I was with have ever, ever done any action other than start rucks with the police. Mein Gott! None of the 5000 or so "black block" here have ever been involved in community action, workplace organising, anti debt work, prisoner support, immigrant work or any other type of promoting self organisation. And yes every single other person from the christian youth organiser in twinset and pearls I sat next to on the train yesterday to the woman behind the bar of the pub I just had lunch in that I have spoken to since then has been really angry and upset about the bb's behaviour!

Or not.

...and yet out of a European population of what, 320 million people how many were there to protest this? How many people actually support anarchy as a system of government? How many people are you actually getting the message through to? Fuck all that's who.

So you've been out and spoken to 00s or 000s of Germans about this have you? Or just been talking to fellow protestors?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Anyone who thinks throwing bricks at the police who are defending the mass murdering scumbags of the G8 leadership is violent is sorely mistaken. How is to violent to try and disrupt a meeting where the attendees are planning how to continue to pillage the resources of everyone else (including us)?

Of course it may not be the best tactic at all times, but in terms of making an impact and attracting attention to our struggle it is useful.

As for pacifism the working class can afford to be pacifist once the final oppresor has been strangled with the entrails of the last tout.

sentiment is nice but it's not really working is it...

I mean this is the equverlent of leaning from scafolding and screaming oi oi at passign women it's never been know to work.

There will be a time for appropreate retribution but violence begats violence. you are looking at removing one patrical system of enslavement with another... the difference is merely flavours of ice cream nothing more... you like choc chilli they like vanilla; both are the same... regardless of what you claim to be the leading idium... i'm pretty sure if you asked blair if his cause was noble he'd say yes... doesn't make it so, merely cos he says so and this applies to the acitons of the blac bloc...

you do the states work for them every time this happens it shows the populist view point that gvien half a chance anarchist devolve to nothign short of mindless violence, and this is why it will never be a credable force...

your not like the original republican army, there's no cause which is beign fought...

now if the blac block infaltrated the hotels and slit the throats of the leaders of the g8 and their subordinates on a monthly basis ...

but they don't they throw rocks at police as a symbolic attack on the things which only goes prove their impotence and lack of clarity about the action their are taking...

using the tools of your oppression to vilify it doesn't get you free...

 

[biff curtains]

Garfield didn't you used to be a formula 1 racing driver?

 

[biff curtains]

How many people actually support anarchy as a system of government?.

lol

So you've been out and spoken to 00s or 000s of Germans about this have you?

I take it you have? Yes Keyser of course I have used my magical powers to split off 80 million "ghosts" Charles Stross style it would be possible to speak to the whole German population.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Garfield didn't you used to be a formula 1 racing driver?

nope...

<have driven f1 tested a number of different cars, however, it's what i do for shits and giggles. What's that got to do with the price of fish? It's amazing what myths get populated about me...some people clearly live in lala land >

 

[kyser_soze]

Anarchy is a system of government - governing oneself to start with, so I don't know why you did the LOL.

But then understanding people who aren't anarchists isn't really a strongpoint is it?

 

[biff curtains]

Anarchy is a system of government - governing oneself to start with, so I don't know why you did the LOL.

But then understanding people who aren't anarchists isn't really a strongpoint is it?

lol :d

 

[nosos]

Anarchy is a system of government - governing oneself to start with, so I don't know why you did the LOL.

Perhaps because it's an oxymoron? Those are two different and entirely distinct sense of the terms government and system.

But then understanding people who aren't anarchists isn't really a strongpoint is it?

In my experience anarchism is far easier to put across plausibly irl (at least until you mention class struggle or, sometimes, the term anarchism) then it is on internet message boards.

 

[nosos]

one patrical system of enslavement with another

You still think violence is patriarchal!!!!?

(you just made my day!)

 

[biff curtains]

You still think violence is patriarchal!!!!?

(you just made my day!)

If a woman hits back at her violent husband she grows a spontaneous beard.

 

[nosos]

If a woman hits back at her violent husband she grows a spontaneous beard.

Think how horrible and masculine she would look then! That's why we need feminists like Garf to protect her and to keep the poor defenseless women all feminine, innocent and pretty.

 

[bluestreak]

You still think violence is patriarchal!!!!?

(you just made my day!)

you're still sulking cos of getting beaten by that girl!

kyser, you do this on every thread about anarchism. if you depress us with your defeatist liberal bollocks all the time we'll never get excited enough about anything to actually do it. please stop, there's a time and a place for reformism and it's not here.

 

[Fruitloop]

Be nice to kyser, he's just acting in his class interest after all.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You still think violence is patriarchal!!!!?

(you just made my day!)

really name the matriachal violence forms then for me dearie...

Think how horrible and masculine she would look then! That's why we need feminists like Garf to protect her and to keep the poor defenseless women all feminine, innocent and pretty.

coming from the anarkid who shops at major supermarkets and complains he can't afford their food... or won't allow homeless friends to live in his pals anarkid party squat cos the might damage the vibe... or complains bitterly that they are the only gayz in the village and scweams and scweams and scweams when it's pointed out they do protest too much... or hangs out with anf fabricates bullshit and lies with kate allen and co, posts up private details about people and then claims their pack of lies is the bonafide truth...

yes let's measure those credentials shall we...

 

[nosos]

..... yawn .....

( x )

anyone want to talk about politics?

 

[nosos]

I'm curious about the national makeup of the g8 protests and how it's changed over time? Has it become more local or are there still a lot of people internationally travelling to these things?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

..... yawn .....

anyone want to talk about politics?

clearly you don' twith you off topic attacks there me laddie... or biff curtains... who was he in another life then ... and when did they return... let's hope that they aren't dispatched in some ruthless authoritatian manner eh??

so go on name the forms of violence in matriarchal society then please. seeign as you despute that violence is a product of patriarchal society... or rather then need for violence...

 

[In Bloom]

The fact is that the german cops panicked and lost control as soon as the first brick was hurled, charging willy nilly in small groups into the crowd indiscimintaly attacking and violently arresting "peaceful" and black block alike, charging around the surrounding housing estate completely randomly.

You must be so proud.

 

[Fruitloop]

Oh great, we've got a full complement now

 

[Barking_Mad]

I think the black bloc should approach all the police with a cup of tea and some biscuits, sit them down, have a laugh, crack open a few beers and before you know it you'd have thousands of armed men on your side to storm the G8 and pull the whole thing down.

/tongue partly in cheek

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

personally i can only see theblack bloc as state agents to illustrate why dissent is a bad thing...

 

[nosos]

so go on name the forms of violence in matriarchal society then please.

Any violence (hypothetical or otherwise) that is committed in any matriarchal society (hypothetical or otherwise). I presume*, perhaps wrongly, that you’re saying such violence would not occur in a non-patriarchal society. Why, pray tell, is this so?

*Otherwise I have no fucking clue as to why you're talking about violence in terms of matriarchy and patriarchy.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Oh great, we've got a full complement now

yeah those bastards not agreeing with our form of politcal statement why can't they just conform like we do...