Vintage Blair as he spoke to union slugs

[exosculate]

The way people are selected to attend the TUC conference is so disconnected from the rank and file membership of those unions - it has almost no meaning - whether people posture at TUC to the left or the right.

I say this as a person who is very supportive of rank and file union activity - but see its shortcomings grow exponentially as you analyse the heirarchy of the unions.

Dave Prentice of Unison earns 90k pa - other union leaders likewise - they are not representative - they are selected by unrepresentative cliques - this cannot ever be healthy.

 

[Jazzz]

While hating everything Blair stands for, I have to admit he is (was?) a class act, very accomplished

 

[King Mob]

Brown apparently treated the union leaders to a bizzarre speach about how globalisation will save Africa last night. And still they love him

Yes but it's Gordon Brown and he's well, not Tony Blair so people will love him because Brown is just so different and progressive.






I feel dirty

 

[Soul On Ice]

Dave Prentice of Unison earns 90k pa - other union leaders likewise - they are not representative - they are selected by unrepresentative cliques - this cannot ever be healthy.

By law a General Secretary of a trade union has to be elected every 5 years in a secret ballot of all union members. General Secretaries "selected by unrepresentative cliques?" Er, I don't think so.

 

[exosculate]

By law a General Secretary of a trade union has to be elected every 5 years in a secret ballot of all union members. General Secretaries "selected by unrepresentative cliques?" Er, I don't think so.

Well apart from the fact the member vote is so small it does not represent the membership.............

You clearly have no clue about the internal workings of unions. There are many mechanisms that facilitate the correct results in union elections.

 

[treelover]

er, I think SOI is a Union Official...

btw, SOI, do you sense some fight returning to the unions re the tuc conf, or was it as Exo says, basically smoke and mirrors,


You clearly have no clue about the internal workings of unions. There are many mechanisms that facilitate the correct results in union elections.

 

[poster342002]

The way people are selected to attend the TUC conference is so disconnected from the rank and file membership of those unions - it has almost no meaning - whether people posture at TUC to the left or the right.

That's right - often "elected unopposed", which many of those seem to think means "elected by 100% of the vote".

 

[John Quays]

Exactly - his chief chracteristic for me is social clmibing - he likes to be at the top, and if he could run for US president he would, quickly followed by President of the World. The fact he slipped to the top of the pack of the Labour rank adn file despite hardly doing any groundwork is testimony to the fact.

Spot on, he's the archetypal social climber for me. I knew a couple of lads just like him at university.

He's always been dazzled by the well-to-do and powerful and assumes that everyone else will be too.

He's also proven to be a liar, which doesn't count in his favour. But all this was known before the last elections, before the Blair-Brown set-to last week, god, does he actually have to halal slaughter the Queen before the voting public wake up to the horror of it all?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Read the book on Ali Campbel and you'll see just how much of a talentless twat Blair really is.

 

[exosculate]

er, I think SOI is a Union Official...

btw, SOI, do you sense some fight returning to the unions re the tuc conf, or was it as Exo says, basically smoke and mirrors,


You clearly have no clue about the internal workings of unions. There are many mechanisms that facilitate the correct results in union elections.

Which union?

He sure is in denial if that is the case.

Probably got Stockholm syndrome!

 

[treelover]

gosh, why are we so personal on urban, its not very nice!

 

[exosculate]

gosh, why are we so personal on urban, its not very nice!

Well when you feel as passionately about unions as I do - union hacks can be more annoying than Tories.

 

[Streathamite]

Exactly - his chief chracteristic for me is social clmibing - he likes to be at the top, and if he could run for US president he would, quickly followed by President of the World. The fact he slipped to the top of the pack of the Labour rank adn file despite hardly doing any groundwork is testimony to the fact.

errmm...actually, he did do groundwork, in how he got the sedgefield nomination, in the foundations he, brown, mandelson etc laid for New Labour in the late 80s, in his caning of michael howard when shadow home secretary.
I loathe the bastard, but facts are facts.
agree with the rest of what you've said tho

 

[Kid_Eternity]

errmm...actually, he did do groundwork,

You mean when he pretended to be a lefty and then revealed his true colours once elected?

 

[VforVictory]

1) Trade union members and leaders are not "slugs". They are a vital part of our society and they fight for and represent people who would otherwise be even more exploited and alienated than they already are.

http://www.tolpuddlemartyrs.org.uk/

2) V for Vintage. V for Victory. V for Vote of No Confidence.

General Election.

October 10th 2006.

 

[poster342002]

You mean when he pretended to be a lefty and then revealed his true colours once elected?

I don't remember him ever pretending to be a lefty. His politics were always very clear to me.

What I do rememebr is all the idiotic soft-leftists and even some far-leftists covering for him whenever he came out with some crass rightwing thing or other - along the lines of "what he meant to say was... what he really means is..." etc etc.

Christ, remember when they all wet their knickers with self-deluded delight when he crowbarred the word "equality" into some speach or other?

 

[Soul On Ice]

er, I think SOI is a Union Official...

Yep I am

btw, SOI, do you sense some fight returning to the unions re the tuc conf, or was it as Exo says, basically smoke and mirrors,

I couldn't really say about the TUC cos I don't really get involved with them or the annual congress.

But generally, do I sense some fight returning to unions? Yes and no - typical bureaucrat's response!

Yes - because I see the unions now picking up and campaigning on privatisation of the health service. In the past it was just national union leaders giving the odd speech and soundbites. Now you are seeing demos invovling the public and large groups of members all around the country on job cuts and proivatisation. So yes the slow mobilisation of rank and file members is good

But I'd also say no that the fight is not returning to unions because, despite a growth in trade union membership since 1997 there's not really been any significant ncrease in basic bread and butter workplace activism. It is just the same faces doing and saying the same things. There's very little new blood coming through and that is really worrying.

 

[Soul On Ice]

Which union?

Rather not say actually - helps to preserve my anonimity. But I think it you look thorouhg my previous posts you will see that it6 is cvlear that I do work for a trade union.

He sure is in denial if that is the case.

I could get all upset at your knee jerk "all FTOs are the enemy" response but to be honest I really can't be arsed. I've got used to being seen as the enemy by a small minority of infantile union activists that seem to think FTO baiting is some sort of sport. If only these activists would spend as much time and energy talking to their members; representing their members and fighting their employers as they do starting pointless spats with me, the members would be better off.

But you (or someone else) do make a valid point about the turnout in postal ballots for GS and EC elections. It is appallingly low and only reflects the general disengagement of the members with their own union.

Mu own view is that the union movement can only become a powerful force again when it fully engages with it millions of members and gets them on broad to campaign on the big issues.

Whatever you say about the current Labour Government - the (small) upswing in union membership only came around after they were elected and enacted some more trade union friendly legislation (that admittedly did not go far enough). But all the movement has done has got more members but no real increase in activism. And in my mind it is the activists that are key - they are the backbone of any union and quite simply there are not enough of them.

 

[exosculate]

Well......

Rather not say actually - helps to preserve my anonimity. But I think it you look thorouhg my previous posts you will see that it6 is cvlear that I do work for a trade union.

Fair Enough

I could get all upset at your knee jerk "all FTOs are the enemy" response but to be honest I really can't be arsed. I've got used to being seen as the enemy by a small minority of infantile union activists that seem to think FTO baiting is some sort of sport. If only these activists would spend as much time and energy talking to their members; representing their members and fighting their employers as they do starting pointless spats with me, the members would be better off.

Not kneejerk at all - I know quite alot about unions - for reasons which will also remain unstated. If you are high up in most unions in this country you are the enemy in many cases. If you are a regional officer type then you're probably not though some are in my view.

But you (or someone else) do make a valid point about the turnout in postal ballots for GS and EC elections. It is appallingly low and only reflects the general disengagement of the members with their own union.

I made that point, but issues of transparency and democracy go far deeper than that. e.g The way the agenda is set for motions at union conferences is generally very underhand in places - by most unions I have observed. Order of business through to some items never being heard for the most spurious of reasons. Real reason political and undemocratic. Could go on and on about this.


Mu own view is that the union movement can only become a powerful force again when it fully engages with it millions of members and gets them on broad to campaign on the big issues.

Agree

Whatever you say about the current Labour Government - the (small) upswing in union membership only came around after they were elected and enacted some more trade union friendly legislation (that admittedly did not go far enough). But all the movement has done has got more members but no real increase in activism. And in my mind it is the activists that are key - they are the backbone of any union and quite simply there are not enough of them.

Hardly anything positive has come from Blair. Alot of recent rise in activity such as it is has been in response to the Blair agenda. So while I see what your getting at - its unconvincing. Which is why union hacks that bang on about Labour link type rubbish annoy the crap out of me as they are a very conservative force in the unions.

 

[Soul On Ice]

Well......

Ok at the danger of this becoming a bit of a love in I will say this:

I was pleasantly surprised by the tone of your post. I thought (wrongly) that I was just gonna get the standard Trot line that "all FTOs are a the enemy line." I suppose I've just got so used to it both on U75 and in the union that I always expect the worst. And that is wrong.

am a regional official, not a someone who works at the national office. I do think I act honestly (but I bet everyone says that) and I try to do things that will make my members' lives better and make my union bigger. I don't always get it right but I do my best and am always honest with members and activists. If I see activists (of any political hue) acting in an anti democratic manner I will intervene so that the members get a chance to have their views heard and wishes respected.

Like any big organisations (schools, companies, charities, the govt, councils, hospitals etc) there a re people who act dishonourably and sadly unions are no different. But to assume all the national office types are the enemy is going wrong. Yes some people manipulate things in a dishonourable way and I find it wrong, distasteful and counterproductive but as I've said that's nothing different to other organisations. Most of the national office staff are decent people working hard on behalf of their members.

Forget all the legitimate grievances the left have against the Blair government and look at facts. Following the election of the government and new legislation the decline in trade union membership was reversed. I don't run with the "well the reason it has gone up cos people are pissed off with the government and that's why they are joining" argument. This is rubbish cos if you think about it cos we had 18 years of Tory rule that decimated this country and there was no rise in TU membership then.

Right got to go cos I've got to go to work. Given your measured post above I look forward to some further posts / discussion with you, rather the than the knee jerk responses I've had in the past.

 

[mashedmaryland]

actually if you were involved it was also the clp's who kept iraq of the conference floor not the unions but then of course thats always missed by sad trots who whinge and moan and know nothing about the reality only what they read in socialist worker or the guardian