Vestas wind turbine factory occupied!! Save jobs! Save the planet!

[In Bloom]

He has explained why the knowledge involved in designing and manufacturing wind turbine blades is indeed complicated and unique

And I said something contrary to this, did I? Perhaps you'd care to point out where?

The point is that the idea that something as basically obvious as blades for wind turbines can be described as the "intellectual property" of any one company shows what a fucking stupid idea "intellectual property" is in the first place, no matter how much fine tuning is required to apply the idea to real life.

 

[isitme]

wind turbines. i'm a big fan

 

[Oxpecker]

Bob Crow - I'm a big fan. You have to admire his class consciousness: as soon as he heard that the company and police were conspiring to starve out the occupiers he immediately sided with the workers. He put on record that he supported breaking the law when the law was unjust, travelled to the IoW to organise a rally at the gates and is even prepared to pay for a helicopter to organise a food drop.

Scargill said during the miners strike that what workers needed was a leader to defend their class with the same tenacity that Thatcher defended hers. Well, in Bob Crow I think we've found that leader.

 

[butchersapron]

Today - protest in the constituency of Ed Miliband, Doncaster North,
- exact details not gone up yet...will edit in

Sat and sunday: Warrington

Saturday 25th July at the UK HQ of Vestas at 12 noon.

HQ address:
Vestas Celtic and Vestas Offshore, UK Sales and Service Unit, 302 Bridgewater Place, Birchwood Park, Warrington WA3 6XG

Sunday 26th July, 2pm
Leafleting the Warrington Wolves Rugby game – Vestas are the shirt sponsors of the club. We’re meeting at 2pm at the club, ring Dan for more information or directions on 07903 856 047

 

[DownwardDog]

And I said something contrary to this, did I? Perhaps you'd care to point out where?

The point is that the idea that something as basically obvious as blades for wind turbines can be described as the "intellectual property" of any one company shows what a fucking stupid idea "intellectual property" is in the first place, no matter how much fine tuning is required to apply the idea to real life.

The abolition of legal protection of intellectual property isn't one of the objectives of this dispute so if production continues as a non-Vestas operation it's an issue that will have to be addressed.

 

[Libertad]

Response from the six fingered filth:

Pro Forma, same email response that I received.

 

[teuchter]

And I said something contrary to this, did I? Perhaps you'd care to point out where?

Well, here:

Oh aye, complicated and unique intellectual property like fucking windmill blades

The point is that the idea that something as basically obvious as blades for wind turbines can be described as the "intellectual property" of any one company shows what a fucking stupid idea "intellectual property" is in the first place, no matter how much fine tuning is required to apply the idea to real life.

No-one is saying that the idea "wind turbine blades" is the intellectual property of Vesta.

But the particular technology and design used to make these particular blades, presumably as a result of research and testing carried out by Vesta, almost certainly is.

Which in practical terms is an obstacle to the factory carrying on making the same things outside of Vesta ownership. Even if it wasn't, presumably the blades are designed in such a way that they fit with other components on Vesta turbines, so in effect they are only any good to Vesta, and it seems ever so slightly unlikely that Vesta would choose to buy blades from someone else operating the factory on the Isle of Wight when they have just set up a facility to do so in the U.S.

Anyway, the point of all this is that the factory can't just keep doing what it is now, outside of Vesta ownership.

It seems a bit unclear what the desired outcome of the strike is. Is it government subsidy to the factory to allow it to continue working under Vesta ownership? Is it some kind of nationalisation? If it is some kind of nationalisation, then what is the factory going to make? Has anyone suggested a coherent plan of action? None seems to be included in the information posted on this thread, as far as I can see.

 

[In Bloom]

Which in practical terms is an obstacle to the factory carrying on making the same things outside of Vesta ownership. Even if it wasn't, presumably the blades are designed in such a way that they fit with other components on Vesta turbines, so in effect they are only any good to Vesta, and it seems ever so slightly unlikely that Vesta would choose to buy blades from someone else operating the factory on the Isle of Wight when they have just set up a facility to do so in the U.S.

Anyway, the point of all this is that the factory can't just keep doing what it is now, outside of Vesta ownership.

It seems a bit unclear what the desired outcome of the strike is. Is it government subsidy to the factory to allow it to continue working under Vesta ownership? Is it some kind of nationalisation? If it is some kind of nationalisation, then what is the factory going to make? Has anyone suggested a coherent plan of action? None seems to be included in the information posted on this thread, as far as I can see.

The main aim is to secure the best possible deal for the Vesta workers, they're pushing for the factory to remain open in some form. It's far from outside the realms of possibility that the factory could continue to make blades for turbines, regardless of which of the many highly complex permutations on a windmill blade might be used.

 

[teuchter]

"Remain open in some form" doesn't seem like a very thoroughly thought through plan.

 

[In Bloom]

"Remain open in some form" doesn't seem like a very thoroughly thought through plan.

So?

 

[DownwardDog]

Is it government subsidy to the factory to allow it to continue working under Vesta ownership?

This is the only demand that makes any sense and they should concentrate on this objective to the exclusion of all else. According to The Indie the Vestas CEO had a meeting with Miliband Minor and asked for some cash. Miliband cockblocked the Vestas guy and told him to do one so Vestas decided to close the IoW factory and decamp.

 

[tar1984]

Pro Forma, same email response that I received.

Yep.

 

[FreddyB]

"Remain open in some form" doesn't seem like a very thoroughly thought through plan.

So they should go home, let the place close and come back when they have this well thought out plan you talk of?

I'm sure Vestas let them know months in advance they were likely to lose their jobs and so the lack of a coherent plan at this stage is purely down to them being feckless tossers. Probably drunks

 

[teuchter]

So they should go home, let the place close and come back when they have this well thought out plan you talk of?

I'm sure Vestas let them know months in advance they were likely to lose their jobs and so the lack of a coherent plan at this stage is purely down to them being feckless tossers. Probably drunks

Well, the announcement was made about three months ago, by the looks of it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8022688.stm

It's up to them what they want to do. If they want to do a sit-in that's fine with me. Presumably part of the point of the sit-in is to draw attention to their situation. If they are demanding some kind of action either from Vestas management or from the UK government, then you would think it would make sense to say what kind of action was being asked for. Otherwise - what is supposed to happen next?

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Like what is? That intellectual property is something to be revered? Fuck off.

Or have I missed the point?

Yes. You have missed the point somewhat. Whether or not someone agrees or disagrees with the concept of intellectual property is irrelevant.

Intellectual property is a matter of law, and people/companies can sue to protect their intellectual property rights.

Intellectual property isn't just about big bad corporations preventing the little people from saving their jobs, y'know.

What about musicians and writers and photographers and other artists? Are you saying they shouldn't be allowed to protect their intellectual property, that there should be a free-for-all and anyone can listen to, read, copy, republish their works? Even if you do believe that, the law is also there to protect the likes of them.

So, yes, you have missed the point rather.

 

[durruti02]

fwd "In the Visteon Factory in Igualada, Barcelona about 110 to 219 workers were made redundant. They have been on strike against this since the 13th of July and have been blockading the gates since the day before yesterday.
"En lucha" wrote this about it "The interesting thing about this story is that it is most likely that the workers from Viston Igualda were inspired by the occupation of thier colleages from England and Ireland". And they recomend that Visteon workers get more radical and occupy...

Here is a link to an article in Spanish.

http://www.kaosenlared.net/noticia/...uean-entrada-fabrica-unico-camino-para-luchar "

 

[Cliffite]

Just got back from a stint helping out around the occupation. Increadible watching how quickly an ununionised workforce (which has taken a huge amount of mangement bullying without response) has transformed itself through taking action. The speed with which the RMT has established a Bureaucracy since Crow came to speak was also astounding. In less then 12 hours they completely transformed the dynamic on the ground insome ways for the better but some deffinately for the worst. The best activists being locked in the building is a curse as well as a blessing but braver people i have yet to meet.

A special mention should go to Ian and Dave whose energy and skills were truely remarkable.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just got back from a stint helping out around the occupation. Increadible watching how quickly an ununionised workforce (which has taken a huge amount of mangement bullying without response) has transformed itself through taking action. The speed with which the RMT has established a Bureaucracy since Crow came to speak was also astounding. In less then 12 hours they completely transformed the dynamic on the ground insome ways for the better but some deffinately for the worst. The best activists being locked in the building is a curse as well as a blessing but braver people i have yet to meet.

A special mention should go to Ian and Dave whose energy and skills were truely remarkable.

how many papers did you sell?

 

[Cliffite]

We've been there since well before the occupation building up the Save Vestas campaign so i'll leave that to your imagination.

 

[Pickman's model]

none

not a single one

 

[Cliffite]

If it keeps you happy you could imagine we burned our supply to keep the workers warm with a kindling of SWP membership forms. Or you could imagine the answer was shookingly high given the weak coverage of the dispute in the main local press and the fact that we are individually recognised by a large body of the workers in the campaign having been there since before the start and having members in the factory to write our coverage.

 

[Urbanblues]

Just got back from a stint helping out around the occupation. Increadible watching how quickly an ununionised workforce (which has taken a huge amount of mangement bullying without response) has transformed itself through taking action. The speed with which the RMT has established a Bureaucracy since Crow came to speak was also astounding. In less then 12 hours they completely transformed the dynamic on the ground insome ways for the better but some deffinately for the worst. The best activists being locked in the building is a curse as well as a blessing but braver people i have yet to meet.

A special mention should go to Ian and Dave whose energy and skills were truely remarkable.

Any idea the number of union members amongst the 600-strong workforce?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Nice little solidarity action yesterday at the HQ near Warrington. Around 15 members drawn from: Anarchist Federation, Green Party, Trades Councils, Respect, SWP and Permenant Revolution. Not a factionalist or sectarian comment to be heard

 

[nightbreed]

Any idea the number of union members amongst the 600-strong workforce?

Unite (TGWU) had about 20 odd members prior to the closure announcement 3 months ago. I guess they are still members but when I spoke to some of them last year they kept the membership for legal/PI support.

Unite I believe missed a trick here.A failed oppurtunity. My understanding is that the officer responsible for the Island threw his dollies out of the pram when the workforce wouldnt take up union membership to fight the closure. Allegedly of course.

Also leftwing/united left FTOs were 'advised' to not go near the demonstration!!!

Well done Bob Crow for getting his foot in the door.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

how many papers did you sell?

We've been there since well before the occupation building up the Save Vestas campaign so i'll leave that to your imagination.

none

not a single one

If it keeps you happy you could imagine we burned our supply to keep the workers warm with a kindling of SWP membership forms. Or you could imagine the answer was shookingly high given the weak coverage of the dispute in the main local press and the fact that we are individually recognised by a large body of the workers in the campaign having been there since before the start and having members in the factory to write our coverage.

So are you a swappie then Cliffite?

Can I just say that I believe swappies jumping on every bandwagon passing actually does a disservice to those campaigns?

If I see a campaign that is independent or with general union support, I'm inclined to be much more supportive and sympathetic.

As soon as I see standard SWP posters I am turned off and much more inclined to do anything that associate myself with a load of bandwagon jumping petty politicos.

Can I ask what is the aim of SWP, when they do all this random bandwagon jumping? Do you actually think it helps the cause? Do you actually think it attracts more attention and assistance than it puts off? Because I reckon the numbers put off by swappie involvement is perhaps far greater than those who decide to get involved.

 

[mutley]

Well it sounds like the 'swappies' have members amongst the workforce, so they had a personal interest in the bandwagon from the start. It also sounds like at least one 'swappie', Jonathan Neale, has done as much as anyone else over climate change in general and to help kickstart this struggle in particular, so he was one of those who won an argument for the bandwagon to actually exist and start moving.

All Cliffite did was give a helpful report on having actually been down there. Pickman's model then started red-baiting.

There are more important things to talk about in this campaign.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Well it sounds like the 'swappies' have members amongst the workforce, so they had a personal interest in the bandwagon from the start. It also sounds like at least one 'swappie', Jonathan Neale, has done as much as anyone else over climate change in general and to help kickstart this struggle in particular, so he was one of those who won an argument for the bandwagon to actually exist and start moving.

All Cliffite did was give a helpful report on having actually been down there. Pickman's model then started red-baiting.

There are more important things to talk about in this campaign.

I don't know whether the workforce does have swappies in their number.

But you're right, it was a bit OT. I'll start a separate thread about swappy tactics, because I am intrigued as to how on earth they can think it helps when the sight of their posters puts off a lot of potential campaigners and activists.

 

[nightbreed]

Well it sounds like the 'swappies' have members amongst the workforce, .

They havent. From the workers I have spoken to they have been a pretty apolitical bunch until now.
I can safely say that before the occupation started last week the SWP,AWL or the SP had no members working in the factory.

 

[grogwilton]

I don't know whether the workforce does have swappies in their number.

But you're right, it was a bit OT. I'll start a separate thread about swappy tactics, because I am intrigued as to how on earth they can think it helps when the sight of their posters puts off a lot of potential campaigners and activists.

If campaigners that see a genuine struggle for employment by people in a area of high unemployment in a recession, get put off by some other lefties they have some petty difference with getting involved, then their perspective is way out of line and theyre not worth a piss.

And I include you in that Ann, if you really think the personal little chip on your shoulder with the SWP is more inportant then these workers trying to keep food on their families tables.

Your solidarity should be automatic and without conditions, whoever is involved, SWP or whoever.

 

[mutley]

Ann your slight back pedal is welcomed.

I may well be wrong about whether anyone in the swp works there (or if any worker has joined).
But until someone provides evidence that the swp is causing a problem here, i'll regard this kind of stuff as mild red-baiting tbh.

Solidarity is what matters.