Venues with no smoking provisions

[miss direct]

oh i think you'll find that the venues who act like this will see that actually not accomidating these people will lead to them not being used in future.

sooner or later bands will say fuck this and go backt o performing in places where their fans will not be treated like some unitable comoddity by snotty nosed staff and venues who seem to think that they are the reason people are there and not the bands performing.

you there to do a job you miserbate you've managed to force all of outsided to protect your intollerent petty fucking whinges the least you coudl do is accept that a we need provision and b that sorry dear but you aren't owed a living from us.

want us in the veneue want our cash... then you make accomidation...

fucking sactimionious anti smoking twats...

fuck all venues liek this here's hoping they all fold.

oh fuck off you rude ignorant tosser. I earn a few pence over minimum wage and get moaned at by pathetic twats every single night.

 

[tarannau]

Don't worry about Garf, he's a fully paid up member of the ranting nonsensical tosser club.

Besides, there are a limited number of decent gig venues and organisers, so it's a captive market in many ways. Bands aren't going to change from the Brixton Academy for example. to the feck awful Roundhouse, because the latter offers a slightly larger outside smoking area.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

oh fuck off you rude ignorant tosser. I earn a few pence over minimum wage and get moaned at by pathetic twats every single night.

you must be a joy to ask anything of then ...

try finding a better job if it irks you so much to have poor wages and people contact, otherwise perhaps you should remind yourself that the world owes you fuck all and beign in the job of hospitality means making things hospitiable for you clientle...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Don't worry about Garf, he's a fully paid up member of the ranting nonsensical tosser club..

more ad homines from the queen of the dour...

 

[miss direct]

you must be a joy to ask anything of then ...

try finding a better job if it irks you so much to have poor wages and people contact, otherwise perhaps you should remind yourself that the world owes you fuck all and beign in the job of hospitality means making things hospitiable for you clientle...

I am polite to customers and I like dealing with them generally, but not when they shout in my face with bits of spittle, about smoking.

I don't make the rules, I am just doing my job, people seem to fail to understand that shouting at me won't help their cause.

It's not up to me to change the rules.

 

[tarannau]

more ad homines from the queen of the dour...

Yes, well done at checking your posts again. Another less than cutting retort undermined by dumbarse carelessness.

As for 'ad hominen' posts, I'd suggest that you go back and look at your last posts and get a fucking grip. Miss Direct, as someone working on re-entries, certainly didn't deserve one of your latest gibberish rants bandying accusatory terms like 'sanctimonious' and a host of other words that you can't be arsed to use properly.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I am polite to customers and I like dealing with them generally, but not when they shout in my face with bits of spittle, about smoking.

I don't make the rules, I am just doing my job, people seem to fail to understand that shouting at me won't help their cause.

It's not up to me to change the rules.

has anyone ever said that was acceptable. if so can you quote it please.

however you attitude is such that you view them as patetic twats rather than your previous grump which was that

If someone can't go for literally, 3 hours (which is the duration of most the gigs, including support) without smoking, then they need to sort it out, it's not the problem of the venue to accommodate peoples' addictions.

you see it as not being the resposniblity of the venue to accomidate people who are perfectly legally entitled to do something. this is precisely the same attitude that was around for people in wheel chairs before the DDA ... it's not the venues responsiblity to make provision for wheel chair users.

the thing the venue and by default the culture cultivated within the staff seem to forget is that without the patrons they have nothing. so it's in their intrest to accomidate the widest possible section of society.

regardless of the moral imperatives from the staff...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Yes, well done at checking your posts again. Another less than cutting retort undermined by dumbarse carelessness.

As for 'ad hominen' posts, I'd suggest that you go back and look at your last posts and get a fucking grip. Miss Direct, as someone working on re-entries, certainly didn't deserve one of your latest gibberish rants bandying accusatory terms like 'sanctimonious' and a host of other words that you can't be arsed to use properly.

really so this is a post relivant in any way to the topic of debate or yet again your attempt to school another poster in their manner of posting...

tell you what when i want your help expressing myself i'll ask for it till then comment on the subject not on the post thanks all the same.

I stand by my comments miss direct has said in no uncertain terms tough it's not the venues problem to accomidate it's patrons. any venue with this attitude is likely to go bust very quickly. and love, it is sanctimoious to lecture others on whether their lifestyle choices are approprate or not....

but then i'd be overawed if you got that seeing as your posts are rarely anything but...

 

[miss direct]

I think comparing wheelchair users and smokers is a poor call. They have no choice, and smokers have a choice.

They are not legally entitled to smoke inside, and it is up to each venue to decide how they want to deal with the issue of passouts. The staff working there have to implement it and deal with customers complaining about it, but don't have any choice about bending the rules.

Maybe the civic will implement the fingertip scanning system that we are using for the darts, to be honest though, I hope not, it just seemed problematic.

 

[Roadkill]

Maybe the civic will implement the fingertip scanning system that we are using for the darts, to be honest though, I hope not, it just seemed problematic.

A fingerprinting system does sound like a lot of hassle, and rather excessive. It's only a few people popping outside for a fag, after all. Surely a simple hand-stamp would be adequate.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I think comparing wheelchair users and smokers is a poor call. They have no choice, and smokers have a choice.

how so either smokers are "pathetic" "addicts" in which case they have no choice or they aren't in which case they do.

They are not legally entitled to smoke inside, and it is up to each venue to decide how they want to deal with the issue of passouts. The staff working there have to implement it and deal with customers complaining about it, but don't have any choice about bending the rules.

Places who don't make suitable smokign provision will simply see a down turn in trade as smokers stay away.

Maybe the civic will implement the fingertip scanning system that we are using for the darts, to be honest though, I hope not, it just seemed problematic.

why not just have a hand stamp or cross on the back of the hand why implament and invasive and dracoinan system which is needlessly expensive...

 

[pogofish]

A fingerprinting system does sound like a lot of hassle, and rather excessive. It's only a few people popping outside for a fag, after all. Surely a simple hand-stamp would be adequate.

Dunno, some places I go to can have more folk outside (smokers & non-smokers) than in. The shortish changeover times between bands only serve to make it worse. As would being in a larger venue maybe? So far our councils have not pushed provisions in the licencing act that would let them limit folk outside but some have made noises about it.

Can't say I've any sympathy for folk who hassle the staff about it tho & IME, most people are pretty respectful of the awkward position staff/venues are placed-in by the act.

Yes, the hand stamp or wristband is the most common method that I see.

 

[bouncer_the_dog]

As a smoker Garf is considerate enough to stub the fags out on his tongue when there are no ashtrays available!

 

[pogofish]

when there are no ashtrays available!

Good pocket ashtrays cost @£1 & plenty of places give them away free BTW.

 

[tarannau]

but then i'd be overawed if you got that seeing as your posts are rarely anything but...

Got what? What the hell are you trying to communicate Garf? - that last sentence makes no sense whatsoever. Stick to trying to ineptly spell rude words and attempting to make up less than laughable insults.

There's still no point berating and insulting Ms D for the system the darts organisers put in place. Neither can I see any decent concert venues closing down because of the smoking ban and the wannbee outspoken views of gobshites like you. Live music venues, in particular, are experiencing a real upturn in trade, even since the ban came into place - these week alone the Academy Music Group annouced three new decent sized venues, including a revamp to the long closed Sheffield Roxy. Do you really think they're running worried about a few disgruntled smokers giving it the big one on bulletin boards? Hell, I'd like to see smoking allowed in gigs and I still think you're not helping smokers be portrayed in a rational or reasonable light.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Got what? What the hell are you trying to communicate Garf? - that last sentence makes no sense whatsoever. Stick to trying to ineptly spell rude words and attempting to make up less than laughable insults.

There's still no point berating and insulting Ms D for the system the darts organisers put in place. Neither can I see any decent concert venues closing down because of the smoking ban and the wannbee outspoken views of gobshites lik you. Live music venues, in particular, are experiencing a real upturn in trade, even since the ban came into place - these week alone the Academy Music Group annouced three new decent sized venues, including a revamp to the long closed Sheffield Roxy...

link please where exactly have i berated her for the system put in place. I have mentioned that the attitude of there'll all patetic twats or hopeless addicts or it's not my job all of which have been said by them as being less than conducive to good customer releations or in a serivce orinated business.

My wider point which is also adiquenatly expressed is that venue who continue to act in this manner deserve and proably will go bust. the public don't go to the venue because of the venue it's merely a place to go where things are happening which people want to see. as with all minority groups every provision possible should be made to accomidate them, it shouldn't be down to either a commercial insurance problems, personal moralistic whims of the staff, or the company which dictate this. Nor for that matter should it be that smokers are treated like second class citizens for happening to choose to smoke.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Do you really think they're running worried about a few disgruntled smokers giving it the big one on bulletin boards? Hell, I'd like to see smoking allowed in gigs and I still think you're not helping smokers be portrayed in a rational or reasonable light.

I wouldn't like to see smoking in gig's having preformmed on some stages where after a few songs it became harder and hard to sing due to the smoke; as a smoker. I would like to see the venues in fact all veneues implementing a simple stamp hand policy which then doesn't stop smokers from exercising their rights and the venue not falling foul of the current anti smoking laws.

a bit of sensible give and take is all it needs. rather than the consistant you are simply a comodity which once we've got your money then fuck you we could give a shit attitude... which is what currently emminates from most of the service industry through out the customer service industry....

 

[miss direct]

No-one has said they are all pathetic twats or hopeless addicts.

It's not second class citizens either, I am tired of hearing that old gem. Another one is "what is happening to society?!" How am I supposed to answer that?

I'd also argue that the smoking ban in live venues actually encourages a lot of people to come to concerts who wouldn't have in the past, such as asthmatics like myself, older people with breathing difficulties, etc etc.

 

[tarannau]

link please where exactly have i berated her for the system put in place. I have mentioned that the attitude of there'll all patetic twats or hopeless addicts or it's not my job all of which have been said by them as being less than conducive to good customer releations or in a serivce orinated business.

My wider point which is also adiquenatly expressed is that venue who continue to act in this manner deserve and proably will go bust. the public don't go to the venue because of the venue it's merely a place to go where things are happening which people want to see. as with all minority groups every provision possible should be made to accomidate them, it shouldn't be down to either a commercial insurance problems, personal moralistic whims of the staff, or the company which dictate this. Nor for that matter should it be that smokers are treated like second class citizens for happening to choose to smoke.

A translation of Garf's post above, to all intensive purposes, would just read 'absolute pish'

My wider point which is also adiquenatly expressed is that venue who continue to act in this manner deserve and proably will go bust.

You what? How is Miss Direct's venue acting in this supposed manner. From what I understand the Darts organisers set up the system and issued an inadequate number of finger printing machines, which in turn led to complaints and some rudeness to Miss D which she understandably objected to What 'manner' is this venue acting in then, or are you (remarkably) trying to use one person's negative reactions to some rude punters as truly indicative of the way the venue publically treats paying customers? Either way and you're taking absolute shit, wouldn't you agree?

And besides, you want to show me these struggling venues that are in terminal decline since the smoking ban? If you haven't noticed gig atendance and the popularity fo live events has continued to grow after the ban, and it's certainly not because of the enlightened, innovative smoking provisions put on by venue owners.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

A translation of Garf's post above, to all intensive purposes, would just read 'absolute pish'.

so that's no link to your assertation then good good at least you managed to retain your itnergity rather than resorting to making things up...

You what? How is Miss Direct's venue acting in this supposed manner. From what I understand the Darts organisers set up the system and issued an inadequate number of finger printing machines, which in turn led to complaints and some rudeness to Miss D which she understandably objected to What 'manner' is this venue acting in then, or are you (remarkably) trying to use one person's negative reactions to some rude punters as truly indicative of the way the venue publically treats paying customers? Either way and you're taking absolute shit, wouldn't you agree?

no but then you seem to be unable to grasp that what you are taking about isn't the basis of my point. regardless of my responses to the cotnray you seem elect on travelling down this route it appears you are deleberately missing the point for justin like pedantry...

And besides, you want to show me these struggling venues that are in terminal decline since the smoking ban? If you haven't noticed gig atendance and the popularity fo live events has continued to grow after the ban, and it's certainly not because of the enlightened, innovative smoking provisions put on by venue owners.

and again can you provide a link where i have said that venues are struggling. I have said nothing of the sort i haev said venues deserve to struggle for not accomidating their patrons. totally different.

It seems that it's almost as if you have some stock answers for this debate and haven't bothered to read the comments merely trotted them out as each point is raised.

 

[editor]

I would like to see the venues in fact all veneues implementing a simple stamp hand policy which then doesn't stop smokers from exercising their rights and the venue not falling foul of the current anti smoking laws.

What "rights" are these, please?

 

[editor]

sI have said nothing of the sort i haev said venues deserve to struggle for not accomidating their patrons.

But by implementing a smoking ban they are accommodating the wishes of the majority of their patrons, so why would you wish them to 'struggle' because of it?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

What "rights" are these, please?

is it illegal to buy cigerettes then?
has there been a law change that i was previously unwaware of?
has tobacco finally been basnihed to the seedy side of illegality?

no.

Then smokers have the right to buy and consume tabbacco/tobacco based products.

The area and constraints on this not withstanding it's still pefectly legal to buy and consume tobacco products.

If people don't want the taxation the shoring up of the economy, if the goverenment didn't want the extra fiscal revenue then do the decnet thing and ban them entirely.

exc ept when 87% of the cost fo a ciggerette is taxation who's really selling the ciggerettes...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

But by implementing a smoking ban they are accommodating the wishes of the majority of their patrons, so why would you wish them to 'struggle' because of it?

cool i'm sure you'd be as opposing of modifications for wheel chair users i mean the majority of patrons are able bodied why should the venue change for the few, why should there be any consiquence to those venues if they refuse to accomidate those in wheel chairs...

but hey you carry on with your unreasonable devisive argument all you want... so long as it furthers your own prejudices eh...

 

[editor]

cool i'm sure you'd be as opposing of modifications for wheel chair users i mean the majority of patrons are able bodied why should the venue change for the few, why should there be any consiquence to those venues if they refuse to accomidate those in wheel chairs...

but hey you carry on with your unreasonable devisive argument all you want... so long as it furthers your own prejudices eh...

Wow. That really is giant-sized strawman you're constructing there.

I made no mention of wheelchair users at all, so I've no idea what you're blathering on about. Is there any chance of you dealing with what I actually said, please?

Oh, and all the Offline venues are both smokers and wheelchair friendly. Have you a point?

 

[editor]

is it illegal to buy cigerettes then?
has there been a law change that i was previously unwaware of?
has tobacco finally been basnihed to the seedy side of illegality?

No chance of a straight, on-topic answer then?

OK. Forget I asked.

 

[tarannau]

Christ. Does Garf post this stuff for a lark, or does he actually have conviction in this nonsensical gibberish.

So far we've had another ludicrously aggressive rant attack about how some 'venues deserve to struggle,' based on little more than the experience of one worker in one venue. And now it's followed by this fatuous comparison with wheelchairs, bibbling on as if smokers deserve equivalence in some way when it comes to gig venues. Marvellous work really.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

No chance of a straight, on-topic answer then?

OK. Forget I asked.

you got a peerfectly reasoanble answer any chance that you'lll ever stop selectively mis quoting nad delebiertely editing things so that the answer you disagree with is some how missing so you can then claim you have reacieved no answer... very dishonest...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Christ. Does Garf post this stuff for a lark, or does he actually have conviction in this nonsensical gibberish.

So far we've had another ludicrously aggressive rant attack about how some 'venues deserve to struggle,' based on little more than the experience of one worker in one venue. And now it's followed by this fatuous comparison with wheelchairs, bibbling on as if smokers deserve equivalence in some way when it comes to gig venues. Marvellous work really.

alteratively you could see that there's no big deal in venues making provision for patrons in the minority and see that there should be an equity of service to all.

or you could make up a laod of supposed arguments and nonsense which hasn't been said then attempt to disprove it...

is there ever going to be a thread where you actually engauge with what's been said rather than you reintepreting other peoples words and then argueeing against things they have not said?

marvellous it's a bloody traversty...

 

[tarannau]

alteratively you could see that there's no big deal in venues making provision for patrons in the minority and see that there should be an equity of service to all.

or you could make up a laod of supposed arguments and nonsense which hasn't been said then attempt to disprove it...

is there ever going to be a thread where you actually engauge with what's been said rather than you reintepreting other peoples words and then argueeing against things they have not said?

marvellous it's a bloody traversty...

How can I see that there's 'no big deal' with venues making provision when I'm not sufficiently informed if that's the case, you oversimplistic pillock.

I know, for example. that Brixton Academy has very little outside space to let punters out to smoke in, hence the queueing restriction. Equally, given security at some of the gigs, it'd be a nonsense to let people in from outside without some kind of additional checks/security in 'fenced' area, adding further time and cost. You also do realise that all punters are treated equally regardless of your bibble- smokers and non-smokers are both entitled to do the same thing (ie not smoke). The fatuous comparison with disability remains bone-headed.

Christ. I'd actually like to see smoking allowed in gigs, but you and your ranting actually has turned me off a little. If your pig ignorant, irrelevant and aggressive approach is anything to go by, then it's no wonder that venues aren't falling over themselves to make smoking areas available.

And I still think you owe Miss D an apology FWIW. You've got a bloody cheek to talk about ' reintepreting other peoples words and then argueeing against things they have not said?' (Sic) to say the least