Venezuela withdraws Israeli ambassador

[Lock&Light]

The religion is called Islam - what is the big distinction in your mind between muslims and islamists? They seem to me to be different ways of describing the same thing - why does the 'ist' make it more sinister - I really want to know - I follow the teachings of Buddhism and so I'm a Buddh 'ist' - does that make me somehow sinister?

Thankfully, very few Moslims share the fanatical beliefs of the Islamists.

 

[nino_savatte]

The term "Islamofascism" was allegedly coined by the booze soaked, ex-Trotskyite, Christopher Hitchens. Which means it's bollocks.

Hitchens is the resident Deep Thinker at Vanity Fair, the literary embodiment of a dying breed: the leftist glitteratti. His post-Marxist pretensions are tolerated because he almost always signs on to the latest crusade of his ruling class masters. In a debate with Noam Chomsky in The Nation, Hitchens manages to extol the Muslims of Bosnia – whose crimes, he claims, were less onerous than those of their Christian opponents – while descrying "fascism with an Islamic face." That this felicitous phrase succinctly describes the state of Kosovo under the rule of his friends in the KLA is an irony of which Hitchens seems honestly unaware, but at least he is entertaining. Andrew Sullivan, on the other hand, is merely foam-flecked….
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j111401.html

Thank you.

 

[Lock&Light]

The term "Islamofascism"

I never use that term as I think 'Islamist' fits the bill better.

 

[nino_savatte]

I never use that term as I think 'Islamist' fits the bill better.

Pity you edited out the rest - eh?

The term "Islamofascism" was allegedly coined by the booze soaked, ex-Trotskyite, Christopher Hitchens. Which means it's bollocks.

It is Islamists that I regard as similar to facists.

Qu'est-ce qu'un "facist"?

 

[Lock&Light]

Qu'est-ce qu'un "facist"?

Try to work it out for yourself, dear.

 

[nino_savatte]

The word you are looking for is "fascist", I believe.

If "Islamists" are "fascists" then where are the defining features of fascism, like the glorification and worship of the military and corporatism? Both are absent, as is the cult of the Leader.

 

[Lock&Light]

The word you are looking for is "fascist", I believe.

What you failed to work out for yourself, was not the silliness of a typo, but the fact that I used the word 'similar'.

 

[nino_savatte]

What you failed to work out for yourself, was not the silliness of a typo, but the fact that I used the word 'similar'.

I didn't "fail to work out" anything. You're fantasising again.

And you're here to pick a fight...as usual.

 

[Lock&Light]

I didn't "fail to work out" anything. You're fantasising again.

And you're here to pick a fight...as usual.

Please yourself...... as usual.

 

[moono]

'De-Zionisation' was actually coined by somebody here, I believe, although I can't remember who.

 

[ZAMB]

The word you are looking for is "fascist", I believe.

If "Islamists" are "fascists" then where are the defining features of fascism, like the glorification and worship of the military and corporatism? Both are absent, as is the cult of the Leader.

Dictionary definition of Islamist is "The religious faith, principles, or cause of Islam."

Are you saying that all people who believe in Islam are fascists?

 

[Lock&Light]

Are you saying that all people who believe in Islam are fascists?

I think you may be talking to me and the answer is no.

 

[ZAMB]

Sorry nino - that wasn't directed at you, but at the person you were replying to.

 

[ZAMB]

I think you may be talking to me and the answer is no.

Who are the real fascists - this is an interesting story - neo-nazis getting together with right-wing American jews for target practice. Heaven help any poor Mexican that gets in the way of these guys. But I guess it would be considered 'self-defence'?????

Wearing orange foam earplugs to muffle the nearby thunder of relentless automatic weapons fire, a grizzled man with SS lightning bolt tattoos on his forearms pulls a little red wagon loaded with rifle ammunition. Carefully picking his way through the teeming crowd, he passes table after table laden with machine guns, gas masks, combat knives, war memorabilia and bomb-making guides. The man sheds his camouflage tactical vest to reveal a worn black T-shirt emblazoned with a Totenkopf, the Death's Head symbol of the Waffen SS. Then he parks his wagon to join a huddle of shoppers surrounding a hard-faced spokeswoman from Valkyrie Arms who's extolling the virtues of the Olympia, Wash.-based arms maker's new product, the Valkyrior 556 Rotary Gun....................................

Beginning in 2004, Walker has distributed materials on "genocide and gun ownership" produced by the far-right JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership) at Knob Creek shoots. "Not only was that well received, it was never scoffed at," he says. "The materials were well marked as being from a Jewish group. Never have I heard a single anti-Semitic utterance."

http://www.alternet.org/story/40344/

 

[nino_savatte]

Dictionary definition of Islamist is "The religious faith, principles, or cause of Islam."

Are you saying that all people who believe in Islam are fascists?

Just seen your post above. S'alright.

 

[nino_savatte]

Please yourself...... as usual.

I shall because that is my right.

Thank you.

 

[RHOQ]

Two things. I think the word "Islamo-fascist" registers with some, and was perhaps first coined by Hitchens, because it draws on the secular, Enlightment, European prejudice against all religions. The word creates a kind of easy association between militant Islam and our culturally specific historical memory of religion in the West, which is tied up with notions of repression, inquisitional conversions, puritanical tryanny etc, whereas the history of Islam, atleast until the last century, was one of general religious tolerance to other "peoples of the book", "no compulsion in Islam" etc.

However, I think the source of "Islamo-fascism" stems from the link made (by Hitchens probably) between the Nazi's political agenda to reverse the national humiliation caused by the Versailles Treaty, and the "Islamists" desire to bring back the Caliphate, because in their political ideology, Arab/Muslim impotence in the face of Israel-Palestine, for example, is a consequence of the post-Ottoman/Versailles settlement in that region, which created weak/ controllable nation states at a time when the geopolitical importance of oil to the West was becoming clear.

The analogy doesn't work for me, because ultimately you have to ask "whose middle-east is it?" If you think its "theirs", then really they are militant anti-imperialists, rather than exporters and coercers of a universal ideology.

 

[rachamim18]

And the clown leans a little more left on his scooter. What a suprise. Hiw words mean so much to Israel, I do not know we will sleep tonight....Wait!!!! Maybe that is the Venezeluan coke at work!!!! Oh well, who cares?

 

[moono]

If you think its "theirs", then really they are militant anti-imperialists, rather than exporters and coercers of a universal ideology.

They're only 'militant' because they're being shafted. It's not some form of Semitic disorder.

 

[RHOQ]

They're only 'militant' because they're being shafted. It's not some form of Semitic disorder.

You're right, the word "militant" is a bit lazily used. I use it to draw a distinction between anti-imperialists who do something about their political convictions, and anti-imperialists who type away at discussion threads.

 

[rachamim18]

they are militant because they espouse the use of armed force against man, woman, and child, tyo further their platry and infantile goals. Fritz Fanon anyone?

 

[moono]

You're right, the word "militant" is a bit lazily used. I use it to draw a distinction between anti-imperialists who do something about their political convictions, and anti-imperialists who type away at discussion threads.

Lol. Bravo.

Rachamim;

they are militant because they espouse the use of armed force against man, woman, and child, tyo further their platry and infantile goals.

No, like I just said, they are 'militant' because they are being shafted.

 

[ZAMB]

they are militant because they espouse the use of armed force against man, woman, and child, tyo further their platry and infantile goals.

They? Sounds more like you're talking about yourself.

 

[jæd]

So what are your politics?

Are you an Islamist? A socialist? An anarchist? A pan-arab nationalist? A concerned Lebanese citizen?

What are your politics exactly?

I'd like to see Moonos answer to this question... That, and him post outside of "Middle Eastern Affiars"... You can imagine the post to Nobbin & Sobbin:

"Hi, I've just met this really, really fit bird. I wnat to jump in the sack with her, the only problem is she's a zionist... What should I do...?"

But I suppose the real post would be:

"Hi, I'm 43 and still living with my parents in Basingstoke and I have an unhealthy interest in the Middle East, where-ever that is. Am I a zionist....?"

 

[jæd]

If you expect me to accept that all Islamists are 'nut jobs' then you'd best define 'Islamist' as opposed to 'Islamic Fundamentalist'.

We can accept you're a nutjob, if that helps...

 

[nino_savatte]

And the clown leans a little more left on his scooter. What a suprise. Hiw words mean so much to Israel, I do not know we will sleep tonight....Wait!!!! Maybe that is the Venezeluan coke at work!!!! Oh well, who cares?

"Clown"? "Scooter"? You aren't making sense.

I see you're in Israel. Been killing some more nasty Arabs, have you?

 

[ViolentPanda]

they are militant because they espouse the use of armed force against man, woman, and child, tyo further their platry and infantile goals. Fritz Fanon anyone?

If you're going to quote someone at least get their name right, eh?

 

[moono]

Jaed;

We can accept you're a nutjob, if that helps...

I have no interest in joining your group, but thank you for the invitation.