lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Uruguay too has a 'leftist' government and President.
Venezuela: Toward a New Political System?
- Thread starter Kid_Eternity
- Start date
The graphs come from The Economist but they in turn got them from Latinbarométro, which is the link I gave everyone, just on case they wonedered where they originated from.Crispy said:
The link for Latinbarométro is this: http://www.latinobarometro.org/
colacho
gorau arf, arf dysg
888 said:
Don´t think that´s the point at all. I happen to think that Chavez is a buffoon, and I have all sorts of reservations about his policies. But that doesn´t mean he isn´t right about quite a few things, too. And remember that it was in response to the crass comments about "commies" etc. that some posters chipped in.
As for sell-offs, well, some details would have been good.
It is for some people.
As for details, here's a couple of links - though I haven't spent any time looking yet.
Chevron et al.
http://www.nodo50.org/ellibertario/seccioningles.htm#DARChevron
Expanding coal mining concessions:
http://www.nodo50.org/ellibertario/seccioningles.htm#coal2005
As for details, here's a couple of links - though I haven't spent any time looking yet.
Chevron et al.
http://www.nodo50.org/ellibertario/seccioningles.htm#DARChevron
Expanding coal mining concessions:
http://www.nodo50.org/ellibertario/seccioningles.htm#coal2005
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
To JoePolitix
The following is my personal opinion with links to sources of things that should perhaps be taken with a pinch of salt:
FEDECAMARAS is not the same thing as the CTV. The CTV is the old social democratic federation not opposed to foreign investment as I've read it over the past years. CTV began shifting towards FEDECAMERAS' "Chavez out no matter what" stance when Chavez began clamping down on what he saw as 'opposition unions' (those who had not specifically called for a vote for him in the 1999 elections-- not just those who called for a vote for Accion democratica).
Chavez-loyalist bosses of companies will act with government backing against unionisation attempts outside the UNT.
Chavez has attempted to mould as much of the labour movement into loyalist UNT unions- with government-sponsored unionisation drives resulting in ultra-loyalist UNT reps in their election.
Attempts to organise outside the UNT and outside the CTV have been blocked as I see it because of the overwhelming resources they have from government coffers and big bosses respectively.
ILO Concerns in 2002
http://webfusion.ilo.org/public/db/...RA=7381&FILE=2249&hdroff=1&DISPLAY=CONCLUSION
CTV complaint in 2003
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/actrav/new/ilc03/file4.pdf
An issue which the US State Department is also understandably jumping upon.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41778.htm
It's also worth looking at the claims of Amnesty International with its people on the ground:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-ven/index
http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/ven-summary-eng
Having said all of this- overall I'd like to see the socialist-leftie claims for Chavez come true.
I'd like it NOT to turn out like either Juan Peron in Argentina
or Lula da Silva in Brazil (those are the two closest worthwhile parallels I can think of)
The following is my personal opinion with links to sources of things that should perhaps be taken with a pinch of salt:
FEDECAMARAS is not the same thing as the CTV. The CTV is the old social democratic federation not opposed to foreign investment as I've read it over the past years. CTV began shifting towards FEDECAMERAS' "Chavez out no matter what" stance when Chavez began clamping down on what he saw as 'opposition unions' (those who had not specifically called for a vote for him in the 1999 elections-- not just those who called for a vote for Accion democratica).
Chavez-loyalist bosses of companies will act with government backing against unionisation attempts outside the UNT.
Chavez has attempted to mould as much of the labour movement into loyalist UNT unions- with government-sponsored unionisation drives resulting in ultra-loyalist UNT reps in their election.
Attempts to organise outside the UNT and outside the CTV have been blocked as I see it because of the overwhelming resources they have from government coffers and big bosses respectively.
ILO Concerns in 2002
http://webfusion.ilo.org/public/db/...RA=7381&FILE=2249&hdroff=1&DISPLAY=CONCLUSION
CTV complaint in 2003
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/actrav/new/ilc03/file4.pdf
An issue which the US State Department is also understandably jumping upon.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41778.htm
It's also worth looking at the claims of Amnesty International with its people on the ground:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-ven/index
http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/ven-summary-eng
Having said all of this- overall I'd like to see the socialist-leftie claims for Chavez come true.
I'd like it NOT to turn out like either Juan Peron in Argentina
or Lula da Silva in Brazil (those are the two closest worthwhile parallels I can think of)
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
pbman said:
And ignoring the fact it's Chavez and whether it is genuine or not, what are your feelings of the idea as it stands? You're supposedly for small government so Id imagine you'd be fairly supportive?
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Isn't the contradiction with Chavez, that he retains pro-capitalist right wing ministers in government alongside left wingers.
Also, he now professes to favour a socialist revolution - but only it seems in Venezuela. In other countries he appears alongside those who are putting a brake on the mass movements - Lula in Brazil and Evo Morales in Bolivia.
Though he certainly seems to be the most radical of Latin American leaders.
I don't see how Chavez is that different from the better reformist governments such as Labour 1945
It is a very interesting process going on in Venezuela though - and I would far rather have Chavez for PM than Mr. Blair!
I also was amused by his response to Bush's axis of evil comments - he started refering to the "axis of good" that was apparently himself, Lula and Castro!
Also, he now professes to favour a socialist revolution - but only it seems in Venezuela. In other countries he appears alongside those who are putting a brake on the mass movements - Lula in Brazil and Evo Morales in Bolivia.
Though he certainly seems to be the most radical of Latin American leaders.
I don't see how Chavez is that different from the better reformist governments such as Labour 1945
It is a very interesting process going on in Venezuela though - and I would far rather have Chavez for PM than Mr. Blair!
I also was amused by his response to Bush's axis of evil comments - he started refering to the "axis of good" that was apparently himself, Lula and Castro!
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Fruitloop said:
heh i know im just can't help myself........id try to talk the devil round, im sure he's not a bad egg really
JoePolitix
Gone
CTV bureaucracy: Scabs for Uncle Sam and the Oligarchs
The CVT is a reactionary union run by an unelected corporatist clique and was discredited in the 1990’s due to it’s complicity in the implementation of the neoliberal program that fucked over the Venezuelan working class.
It’s against this backdrop that the CTV-Chavez split has to be understood. Chavez and the MVR came to power on the basis of challenging the Acción Democratica/Copei two-party rule that the CTV top-brass had been prostituting their sorry arses in support of since the 1970’s. This is why the CVT were among Chavez’s most fierce critics and why Chavez in turn frequently lashed out against the CVT.
After winning a land-slide result in a referendum the Venezuelan government forced the CTV to hold it’s first ever leadership elections by the base in 2001. It was for this measure, which was in response to rising discontent among grassroots labour activists, that the spineless fuckers in the ILO and ICFTU comdemned the Venezuelan government for interfering in union affairs!
However because the CTV was so corrupt this measure backfired. Abstention rates were between 50-70%, and widespread allegations of fraud and corruption led the Venezuelan Supreme Court to refuse to recognise the results.
The "winner" Carlos Ortega dragged the already soiled name of the CTV even deeper into the mud. The CVT opposed every progressive development in Venezuela – agrarian reform, increased working-class control in industry, the provision of free heath care by Cuban doctors etc whilst forging a fully fledged alliance with the employees chamber of commerce federation, Fedecamaras. They supported four bosses lockouts (‘strikes’ that were called without consulting the members) and Ortega went as far as to hail the coup that installed his mate who happened to be the president of Fedecamaras. No wonder the vast majority of Venezuelans hate their guts!
It was against this backdrop that the UNT was formed on the basis of democracy and class struggle and it’s gaining popularity fast. Given that a new political system is emerging in Venezuela (hence the title of the thread) it only makes sense that the old corrupt institutions are swept away and replaced with newer, better, more representative ones.
I for one welcome the efforts by the Venezuelan government and grassroots organisations to purge the malignant cancer that is the CTV out of the Venezuelan body politic. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if Uncle Sam’s Uncle Toms don’t like it!
sihhi said:
The CVT is a reactionary union run by an unelected corporatist clique and was discredited in the 1990’s due to it’s complicity in the implementation of the neoliberal program that fucked over the Venezuelan working class.
It’s against this backdrop that the CTV-Chavez split has to be understood. Chavez and the MVR came to power on the basis of challenging the Acción Democratica/Copei two-party rule that the CTV top-brass had been prostituting their sorry arses in support of since the 1970’s. This is why the CVT were among Chavez’s most fierce critics and why Chavez in turn frequently lashed out against the CVT.
After winning a land-slide result in a referendum the Venezuelan government forced the CTV to hold it’s first ever leadership elections by the base in 2001. It was for this measure, which was in response to rising discontent among grassroots labour activists, that the spineless fuckers in the ILO and ICFTU comdemned the Venezuelan government for interfering in union affairs!
However because the CTV was so corrupt this measure backfired. Abstention rates were between 50-70%, and widespread allegations of fraud and corruption led the Venezuelan Supreme Court to refuse to recognise the results.
The "winner" Carlos Ortega dragged the already soiled name of the CTV even deeper into the mud. The CVT opposed every progressive development in Venezuela – agrarian reform, increased working-class control in industry, the provision of free heath care by Cuban doctors etc whilst forging a fully fledged alliance with the employees chamber of commerce federation, Fedecamaras. They supported four bosses lockouts (‘strikes’ that were called without consulting the members) and Ortega went as far as to hail the coup that installed his mate who happened to be the president of Fedecamaras. No wonder the vast majority of Venezuelans hate their guts!
It was against this backdrop that the UNT was formed on the basis of democracy and class struggle and it’s gaining popularity fast. Given that a new political system is emerging in Venezuela (hence the title of the thread) it only makes sense that the old corrupt institutions are swept away and replaced with newer, better, more representative ones.
I for one welcome the efforts by the Venezuelan government and grassroots organisations to purge the malignant cancer that is the CTV out of the Venezuelan body politic. I couldn’t give a flying fuck if Uncle Sam’s Uncle Toms don’t like it!
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