Venezuela hits BP with back-tax bill
- Thread starter Backatcha Bandit
- Start date
Backatcha Bandit
is not taking your calls
Did you not manage to get any of Uncle Hugo's discounted heating oil yourself, then, Yammy?
Backatcha Bandit
is not taking your calls
Chavez is planning major expansion of the sector:
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/headline_news/article.jsp?content=b032615A
In Bloom said:In other words, he says bad things about the US, therefore his motives must be entirely selfless
No, he says bad things about the US coz they need saying. As for the rest of his 'agenda', i don't personally care. My angle is that the US need reigning in from the apocalypse they're headed for.
Everybody has motives you idiot. Nobody's perfect. But anybody that sees through american foreign policy and calls it for what it is is doing a favour to mankind.
rporations 
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
phildwyer said:
Happy now spring peeper read an atlas you might learn something .
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
errr...OK, he ain't perfect, but surely this, and a fair few other things he's done (like the caribbean initiative for one) are far better than anything else on the menu for venezuela, or most other S American nations, right now?In Bloom said:
woss yer better alternative. sit and wait for perfection?
I just hate the way the liberal left worship the fucker. He's not really that great, he's better than anyone the US would replace him with, I'll grant you, but he's not that radical and frankly, his regime is far more authoritarian than any of the anti-terrorist legislation has made the UK.Red Jezza said:errr...OK, he ain't perfect, but surely this, and a fair few other things he's done (like the caribbean initiative for one) are far better than anything else on the menu for venezuela, or most other S American nations, right now?
woss yer better alternative. sit and wait for perfection?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
In Bloom said:
Except that their social and political capital is finite, constrained by the fact that they operate (more or less) within a democracy.
A landowner or "boss", on the other hand, retains his social and political capital
as long as he retains his physical assets.
JoePolitix
Gone
In Bloom said:
Supporting progressive policy does not amount to worship. I've seen no evidence of any worship on this board - care to quote some specifics?
In Bloom said:
Why is it particularly authoritarian? Have there been restrictions on press freedom, supression of freedom of assembly, electoral fraud, the arrest of political opponents? - even the 2005 US State department Report conceeds there hasn't been.
Venezuela has in recent years witnessed the mass participation of workers and poor people on the political landscape on a scale unparrelled in the rest of the world - really giving Bolivarian democracy a rich social content.
Worth supporting, not sneering at.
Xipe Totec
Drexciyan
So all a politician needs is some populist rhetoric for you to fawn over him? Do the increasingly authoritarian activities of the Chavez regime not worry you?fela fan said:
My mistake. I didn`t realise you were a supporter of totalitarian dictatorships.fela fan said:
Xipe Totec
Drexciyan
Your definition of democracy must be fascinating.dylanredefined said:
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Xipe Totec said:
Hello new person
Been lurking for a while?
JoePolitix
Gone
spring-peeper said:Hello new person
Been lurking for a while?
Is (s)he a yankee imperialist or an anarcho "libertarian" type though? Its hard to tell at first on a Chavez thread...
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
JoePolitix said:
troll
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
no come on, neither Chavez nor his party can be blamed for the adolescent hysteria of his stood cheerleaders in the halls of res and the streets of Islington!In Bloom said:
which strikes me as kinda the nub of the matter, all things considered
but compared to MOST other S-Am regimes of, say, the past 30 years, more to be commended? again, you'd prefer to wait around for perfection?
please elucidate and substantiate.
I think he is to be commended for his education, healthcare, food distribution and other redistribution programmes, personally, whilst agreeing he is rather over-rated, and the lib-left adulation can be attributed as much to the awful history of S-am govts as a whole, as it can be to anything else
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
who would you prefer, if you had to choose between castro and batista/Xipe Totec said:
because the cuban people did have to.
Xipe Totec
Drexciyan
The entire state apparatus - judiciary, armed forces, state enterprise, audit office and, since the last elections, the national parliment - are all under the control of Chavez supporters. No checks to the presidents power remain: he can pass any law, or alter the constitution as he pleases.JoePolitix said:
True, he has not acted on his new powers yet. But in a politically turbulent country like Venezuela, shouldn`t curbs on the state`s power be of the highest importance?
Certainly, the Chavez regime touts "participatory democracy" as one of it`s principal goals.
Yet only 20-25% of the electorate voted in the last election.
There are many Latin American societies following progressive and viable policies at the moment.
However, the cheap populism of Chavez is not amongst them.
Xipe Totec
Drexciyan
Castro did not show his true colours till after Batista had been overthrown.Red Jezza said:
The Cuban people did not know Castro would maintain power in a deeply oppressive regime for the next 50 years.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Thats true but unfortunatly castro is still better than anything else on offer
then or now .When he goes I guess you will get a cuban version of russia
the state collapses a few get rich the rest get screwed ,but, hollywood
get to party in cuba again .Freedom is worth having but so is a functioning
state .
then or now .When he goes I guess you will get a cuban version of russia
the state collapses a few get rich the rest get screwed ,but, hollywood
get to party in cuba again .Freedom is worth having but so is a functioning
state .
There's the way that they all wibble on and on about how wevolutionawy he is and how he's the last great hope of Latin America for a start.JoePolitix said:
Not to mention the way that you can't criticise him without being jumped all over
There's that little matter of him building up a militia that is specifically loyal to him as an individual, if you really need an example.
That's not the work of Chavez at all, though. Chavez's regime is a response to the increasingly strong grass roots movements in Latin America and the increasing participation of excluded groups in civil society.
In any case, the workers are still workers and the politicians and landowners are still politicians and landowners and that's exactly the way Hugo fucking Chavez likes it.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
now how about answering the question?Xipe Totec said:
btw, you bin to Cuba? i have. It is NOWHERE NEAR as repressive as US propagandists would claim. The strong impression I formed - by reading into subtext andnuance - was a man respected and liked by the people, who are in agood positon to view his regime, and contribution, in the round.
JoePolitix
Gone
Xipe Totec said:
You say there are no checks to Chavez’s power yet he has been subject to recall by the electorate on a number of occations and I’ve lost count of the number of times he’s been re-elected (nine since 1998?). He’s certainly the most elected leader in the world.
Laws are passed by the National Assembly. The President can ask the National Assembly to reconsider portions of laws he finds objectionable, but a simple majority of the Assembly can override these objections.
No amendment to the constitution can be made without a referendum. The Constitution of 1999 was the first constitution approved by popular referendum in Venezuelan history.
The reason that Chavez supporters have total control of the NA is because the reactionary opposition – who were set to do piss poor – boycotted the last election which was held to be free and fair by international observers. The opposition have given up on democratic politics and instead engage in destructive activities like organising bosses lock outs and violent street demonstrations. They are has-beens.
The turn out in that election was low, partly because of the withdrawal of the opposition but also because there is a general distrust of the political parties in Venezuela that dates back decades. This doesn’t detract from Venezuela’s strong grassroots democracy – the UNT, Bolivarian Circles, land committees, Social Battle Units and so on. Participation in the political process is far much greater than in the U.S, U.K etc.
What are these progressive Latin American societies you talk about? Evo Morales Bolivia – a key Chavez ally or a murderous and reactionary regime like Uribe’s Colombia?
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
The States are interested in setting up a trade agreement with the South American countries. They currently have a similar to the one with Canada and Mexico.
I think that Bush is a little upset that South American countries turned him down.
(don't think he was impressed with the Canadian prime minister at that meeting, either)
I think that Bush is a little upset that South American countries turned him down.
(don't think he was impressed with the Canadian prime minister at that meeting, either)
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