Vegetarians more intelligent than meat eaters!!!

[GarfieldLeChat]

its not just veggies who think people who like and eat fois gras are cunts either... some of us meat eaters are not impressed with animals being force fed in that manner (oor force fed at all tbh)

i don't get this you think that giving steroids to cows to maek the swell isn't as bad... if you eat meat indeed if you in anyway take part in the industrail farming complex as a willing a knowing particpant you are just as guilty... to me veggies are merely attemtping to negate their own participation by pointing the finger else where to apease their own concence... this has only not been the case for a few people i know who were raise veggies and therefore have never eatten meat ...

 

[ska invita]

coo! vegetarianism as a class war issue - brill "All poultry is theft!" "bacon is the opiate of the masses!!"

- i actually agree with that! Hoho!

I seem to rememebr that Marx does talk about man's disconecction with nature under capitalist forces of production - and that a reconnection with Nature is one of the key goals of a communist utopia.

The insanely high levels of meat eating that occur in much of the world now are a direct result of capitalsim in my opinion.


Worth thinking of the work of philospher David Chalmers, whose work is all about the human capacity for conscoiusness.

In his model he says over evolutionary time our consciousness has gone, or can go, from self to family to tribe to broader community to nation to race to world to universe.

One effect of this is as our consciousness expands to consider more elements as part of our immediate concern, so our relationship with animals changes - we dont want to hurt them, or eat them.

Vegetarians become so as a result of a thought process, and it isn't that suprising that this thought process requires intelligence.

edit: there is obviously a class issue regarding the nurturing of intelligence, and a politics of ideas too..

 

[f for fake]

factory farming is cruel, no boubt about that. But the meat is cheeper and try telling a family living on the bread line that they cant eat that meat and must buy meat from a free range farm that costs quids more. then see that they say to you.

end of the day, humans have always eaten meat, we hunted and killed meat to live. We are at the top of the food chain, and as mentioned before, show me a veggie wolf and i may think about it. Till then, where the 18oz stake i orderd while writing this?

 

[Pingu]

i don't get this you think that giving steroids to cows to maek the swell isn't as bad... if you eat meat indeed if you in anyway take part in the industrail farming complex as a willing a knowing particpant you are just as guilty... to me veggies are merely attemtping to negate their own participation by pointing the finger else where to apease their own concence... this has only not been the case for a few people i know who were raise veggies and therefore have never eatten meat ...

there IS a difference between eating meat and eating meat produced in a cruel manner. For instance I am actually quite careful where the meat I buy comes from and I do ask questions about how it was raised etc. If I dont know enough to make an informed decision then i wont buy it. I am fairly lucky though that where I live I have access to farmer markets and local produce. I dont really go in fo evangalising but there are some meat products whose production is inherantly cruel and I am very much against them.

I also accept that veggis\piscathingies\polowhatsits\vegans\yoghurteaters will have a pop at me for eating meat at all.

 

[madzone]

Um. Do you not consider killing a cow (thats been specifically raised for the purpose) to provide your juicy steak cruel at all?

No, I don't or I wouldn't send our cows to slaughter

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

there IS a difference between eating meat and eating meat produced in a cruel manner. For instance I am actually quite careful where the meat I buy comes from and I do ask questions about how it was raised etc. If I dont know enough to make an informed decision then i wont buy it. I am fairly lucky though that where I live I have access to farmer markets and local produce. I dont really go in fo evangalising but there are some meat products whose production is inherantly cruel and I am very much against them.

I also accept that veggis\piscathingies\polowhatsits\vegans\yoghurteaters will have a pop at me for eating meat at all.

here's the thing ... killing summit is in it's nature inherently cruel... you are extingusting it's very life force the thing which gives it it's uniqueness it's connection to the planet... you could kill it in skill robes with it laying on a feather bolster of pure satin and it'd still be cruel as you are killing it....

however acknoweldging this level of cruelty isn't a bad thing we are the top of the food chain it's what we do... ergo all meating is inherently cruel, however where you and i differ is clearly that i don't feel any guilt about inflicting that cruelty, none, fuck em they are our prey... they are not human there's no kith or kinship towards them they are our food...

As i said find me a remorseful wolf and then i'll consider it ...

 

[madzone]

right becuase there's nothing cruel about raising an animal for slaughter, fattening them up ripping them away from their mothers at a young age etc etc etc .....

another inconsistant moaning liberal piece of claptrap...

if it's edible eat it, don't start claiming some kind of fucking morality on food it's the presever of those who have too mcuh to be concerned as to whether the food has feelings in some kind of childish and moronic anthropromophication...

They aren't humans they don't feel like humans and even if they did who gives a fuck they are our prey just as other animals are other animals prey... hello top of the food chain...

wheny ou find me a vegitarain wolf then i'll consider it as a possiblity for life style choice...

Errrr

I'm not veggie as you well know. I also don't buy milk so none of your scenarios apply to me. I do think vegetarians who drink milk are hypocrites though

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

No, I don't or I wouldn't send our cows to slaughter

then you have in your own mind set up priorities which are in fact merely excuses to justify your killing or involvement in killing... which kinda shows the level of delulled hypocrasy you have when talking about fois grais...

good killing bad killing nice to see there is a defintition... right... a dividing line... if it's ok to eat a cow it's fine to eat any other fucking thing that's edible... and to preparre them in a manner which makes them as tasty as possible... to prevent wasteage.... it's merely prey...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Errrr

I'm not veggie as you well know. I also don't buy milk so none of your scenarios apply to me. I do think vegetarians who drink milk are hypocrites though

but you do define fose grais as being a bad thing...

 

[madzone]

but you do define fose grais as being a bad thing...

I define any thing where the method of production is inherently cruel as a bad thing - yes. I have no issue with killing something for food. I have issues with how it's lived. Force feeding an animal until its liver swells is cruel.
Still, you don't seem like the happiest bunny today so doubtless it's a worthless passtime trying to debate with you

 

[madzone]

then you have in your own mind set up priorities which are in fact merely excuses to justify your killing or involvement in killing... which kinda shows the level of delulled hypocrasy you have when talking about fois grais...

good killing bad killing nice to see there is a defintition... right... a dividing line... if it's ok to eat a cow it's fine to eat any other fucking thing that's edible... and to preparre them in a manner which makes them as tasty as possible... to prevent wasteage.... it's merely prey...

It's not about the killing, it's about how they lived.

 

[CharlieAddict]

I define any thing where the method of production is inherently cruel as a bad thing - yes. I have no issue with killing something for food. I have issues with how it's lived. Force feeding an animal until its liver swells is cruel.
Still, you don't seem like the happiest bunny today so doubtless it's a worthless passtime trying to debate with you

there's no such thing as 'bad' killing.
killing is killing. the end result is death. and it's only an animal.

and my stomach is the graveyard where all the animals come to die.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

It's not about the killing, it's about how they lived.

is it fuck you assume that the animal cares or can differentiate it's not sentient or self aware and even if it was TOP of the FOOD chain... as long as we aren''t pissing in our food chain or in some other way poisoning it then really why give a fuck... it's not a pet it's food... do you get concerned that carrots might scream when lifted from the ground?? did i mean it's how it lived right...

 

[madzone]

is it fuck you assume that the animal cares or can differentiate it's not sentient or self aware and even if it was TOP of the FOOD chain... as long as we aren''t pissing in our food chain or in some other way poisoning it then really why give a fuck... it's not a pet it's food... do you get concerned that carrots might scream when lifted from the ground?? did i mean it's how it lived right...

Are you drunk?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Are you drunk?

are you mental...


no really...

what kind of person is drunk at work at this time of day dear it goes to shwo that anything whcih contradict s your world view is dismissed as being some kind of product of a fevoured mind...

perhaps this in it'self is telling...

you say good animal has to have a good life what about rodents dot hey have to have a good life? swerer rats? cockroaches? do they have to have a comfortable human equated anthropromorphic life ... or is it only certain animals you with your morality applied externally who need to have a good life...

fuck them really fuck them hard...

they are food... period... they don't need a good life other than top prevent toxins following up the food chaiin and poisoning me... they don't need to be comfortable, they are fucking animals...

 

[madzone]

are you mental...


no really...

what kind of person is drunk at work at this time of day dear it goes to shwo that anything whcih contradict s your world view is dismissed as being some kind of product of a fevoured mind...

perhaps this in it'self is telling...

you say good animal has to have a good life what about rodents dot hey have to have a good life? swerer rats? cockroaches? do they have to have a comfortable human equated anthropromorphic life ... or is it only certain animals you with your morality applied externally who need to have a good life...

fuck them really fuck them hard...

they are food... period... they don't need a good life other than top prevent toxins following up the food chaiin and poisoning me... they don't need to be comfortable, they are fucking animals...

With all due respect you're talking utter shite. You can't compare a cockroach and a cow My animals are very aware - they feel pain, they feel discomfort and they show it in a million ways. Animals for food are kept in conditions that people would be imprisoned for if it was a cat or a dog - I fail to see the difference. My animals have a decent life and a carefully planned death. You cannot lump that in together with someone who buys battery chicken and shonky bacon where the pig has been kept in a farrowing crate.

From a purely selfish perspective, meat from an animal that has been badly raised is shite - you can taste it. It's full of stress hormones and other chemical shit and has to be pumped full of water to make it appear tender. Still, each to their own eh?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

With all due respect you're talking utter shite. You can't compare a cockroach and a cow My animals are very aware - they feel pain, they feel discomfort and they show it in a million ways. Animals for food are kept in conditions that people would be imprisoned for if it was a cat or a dog - I fail to see the difference. My animals have a decent life and a carefully planned death. You cannot lump that in together with someone who buys battery chicken and shonky bacon where the pig has been kept in a farrowing crate.

From a purely selfish perspective, meat from an animal that has been badly raised is shite - you can taste it. It's full of stress hormones and other chemical shit and has to be pumped full of water to make it appear tender. Still, each to their own eh?

yes i can with no repect due to you at all ...

they are animals there's no differnece they are all in significant in comparison to the further exisitnace of the human race other than as being a source of protien, you migth apply feeling emotions to an animal which is the process of anthropromorphication but in reality it's got a simple nervous system no sentience and no real as define intelligence even if it did it doesn't matter on fuck it's a walking larder and little else...

 

[madzone]

yes i can with no repect due to you at all ...

they are animals there's no differnece they are all in significant in comparison to the further exisitnace of the human race other than as being a source of protien, you migth apply feeling emotions to an animal which is the process of anthropromorphication but in reality it's got a simple nervous system no sentience and no real as define intelligence even if it did it doesn't matter on fuck it's a walking larder and little else...

A cow has a simple nervous system?

And my goats could fucking outdo you at sudoku

 

[tbaldwin]

then you have in your own mind set up priorities which are in fact merely excuses to justify your killing or involvement in killing... which kinda shows the level of delulled hypocrasy you have when talking about fois grais...

good killing bad killing nice to see there is a defintition... right... a dividing line... if it's ok to eat a cow it's fine to eat any other fucking thing that's edible... and to preparre them in a manner which makes them as tasty as possible... to prevent wasteage.... it's merely prey...

Crikey......
Are you against all killing?

 

[dash]

GarfieldLeChat: How do you know animals aren't aware of things and can't feel pain?

And if you say there's no way of knowing one way or the other, then why not give the animals the benefit of the doubt?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Crikey......
Are you against all killing?

nope i'm against the excuse people use to justify killing things oil money land it's a baby cow... but against the killing... nah... food chain... -->

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

GarfieldLeChat: How do you know animals aren't aware of things and can't feel pain?

And if you say there's no way of knowing one way or the other, then why not give the animals the benefit of the doubt?

my point is who gives a fuck if they feel apin they aren't human...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

A cow has a simple nervous system?

And my goats could fucking outdo you at sudoku

you really need to learn abotu pathrpromorphication ...

 

[dash]

You call that a point?

 

[Structaural]

Bollocks. Fish eaters are the most intelligent - all those brain oils. Though I do like to think that being brought up vege (no longer) made me the brillyant intalec I am know.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You call that a point?

huh? more so that the falwed study which uses a small sized sample group of only 8000 to extrapolate that veggies are more intellient than meat eaters with out factoring any other variables except to make corrections afterwards...

we know that food influences childresn alertness at school just look at jamies school dinners for examples... so why wouldn'this also influnce their abiltiy to learn and form cognative abilties at periods when they were growning up as all the study peiople in the test started out as meat eatters and then became vegitarians the study is utterly meaning less... former meat eatters more intelligent than current meat eatters... survey found... really no shit... this has what outsdie factors then it must be what they are eatting....

now if they instead took a group of new born babies and prevent them form eatting meat ever and then took a control group of babies and fed them meat then measured this gave them all the same stimulus interaciton educations life experince choices etc... then you have a scientific study...

as for Madzones bollcky poitn about her animals being wonderful brain box feeling caring sharing join hooves round the camp fire singing kubyyah i'm not convinced and even so it doesn't matter as at the end of the day it's fucking food... nothing more since when did food have rights...

 

[Structaural]

are you mental...


no really...

what kind of person is drunk at work at this time of day dear it goes to shwo that anything whcih contradict s your world view is dismissed as being some kind of product of a fevoured mind...

perhaps this in it'self is telling...

you say good animal has to have a good life what about rodents dot hey have to have a good life? swerer rats? cockroaches? do they have to have a comfortable human equated anthropromorphic life ... or is it only certain animals you with your morality applied externally who need to have a good life...

fuck them really fuck them hard...

they are food... period... they don't need a good life other than top prevent toxins following up the food chaiin and poisoning me... they don't need to be comfortable, they are fucking animals...

Wot an 'orrible human-centric post Garf. You reserve your compassion for ONLY humans?

 

[pengaleng]

Wot an 'orrible human-centric post Garf. You reserve your compassion for ONLY humans?

I couldnt give a fuck about uncomfortable humans let alone some poxy aminal.

 

[Structaural]

I couldnt give a fuck about uncomfortable humans let alone some poxy aminal.

You do surprise me.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Wot an 'orrible human-centric post Garf. You reserve your compassion for ONLY humans?

yes of course compassion can only be had for humans...

compassion
a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.

is only applicable to humans... there can be no compassion for animals, that's anthropromorphication... deal with the fact that you and others are projecting human feeling and emotions on to other speices of animals in order to feel that they in some way relate to you... other than as prey... or food...

that's fine you do that but please don't think this is normal... it's not it's conditioned... they are food, they are prey ...

where is it written that we should have comapssion for food...