Using someones unsecured network. Ethical?

[mauvais]

Recent cases say it's illegal. In my opinion it shouldn't be, since the process involves asking the router for permission, and it being granted.

If someone bought and installed a vending machine in a public place, but forgot to set any prices so everything was free, would using it be a crime?

 

[skyscraper101]

I updated my neighbour's router firmware once while 'borrowing' their wifi so I ended up doing them a favour in the end

 

[grit]

I updated my neighbour's router firmware once while 'borrowing' their wifi so I ended up doing them a favour in the end

And in doing that made their network unusable for about fifteen minutes I'd say along with deleting any specific networking config they had setup.

 

[Jackobi]

I updated my neighbour's router firmware once while 'borrowing' their wifi so I ended up doing them a favour in the end

I intentionally use outdated router firmware so specific software will work, I wouldn't be happy if my router's firmware was updated without my permission.

 

[editor]

If someone bought and installed a vending machine in a public place, but forgot to set any prices so everything was free, would using it be a crime?

No. How could it be?

 

[skyscraper101]

And in doing that made their network unusable for about fifteen minutes I'd say along with deleting any specific networking config they had setup.

No, it only took a minute and I did it when nobody else was using it in the early hours (I checked for traffic on the network) and I made MSN run better for them.

 

[grit]

No, it only took a minute and I did it when nobody else was using it in the early hours (I checked for traffic on the network) and I made MSN run better for them.

You also did a full review of their config settings and double checked it against the known defaults for that version of the firmware before you flashed it?

If you did or did not cause harm (knowingly or unknowingly) it doesnt change the fact that you dont have the right to do it and shouldnt have.

ETA: How did you make MSN "better" IM is probably the one protocol along with email that its throughput is so low there isint a difference between a 14.4k modem and a 2meg broadband line.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Maybe unethical in terms of law. Unsecure. Certainly. That is to say your use will be unsecure.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

My Virgin Media broadband has been down for two days now.

I have logged online using a laptop and someone's unsecured network.

I am not downloading anything, just regular surfing and checking my emails.

It's techincally theft I suppose, but it's not like I am maxing out their connection by downloading seasons 1 to 5 of Lost.

Am I in the wrong?

Can they tell I am using it? I am just looking at regular sites rather than donkey porn.

I wuoldn't be that arsed if it was me. How would I even know?

I don't even know if mine is secured tbh. I got the password off the Bethere router box itself on the label. Does that mean it's secured or unsecured?

 

[keybored]

Those radiowaves are in my room.

Not sure if anyone's picked up on this point but I think it's a good one. It's about as akin to "theft" as if they were playing their music too loud and you were enjoying listening to it.

 

[grit]

I wuoldn't be that arsed if it was me. How would I even know?

I don't even know if mine is secured tbh. I got the password off the Bethere router box itself on the label. Does that mean it's secured or unsecured?

If there was a password on the router that means it had encryption turned on out of the box, my sky broadband had the same. That in itself has shown that the OEMs/distributor are getting a bit wiser. There are two forms of possibly wireless secruity WEP and WPA.

A long time ago (not sure exactly how long) WEP was cracked, this meant that anyone with a wireless card that had some specific features could monitor a encrypted wireless network and after inspect all the packets could figure out the key and reverse it. This means that any half competent nerd can crack a WEP network, the more traffic on the network the faster you will crack it. There is kind of a sport of cracking them around major cities called wardriving. I think I even heard/read some story of some guys in new york with a helicopter and a high power antenna to boost their wireless adapters

WPA, as far as I know (i just know enough networking to get by) hasnt been cracked and is pretty much secure.

The fact that your router came out of the box with security turned on is a response to the exact issue being discussed here.

ETA: keybored your comparison is pushing it a little bit as the person also using the connection has the ability to decrease the owners bandwith and therefore depriving him of something, which as someone pointed out earlier is the legal definition thats worked with.

 

[keybored]

I wuoldn't be that arsed if it was me. How would I even know?

I don't even know if mine is secured tbh. I got the password off the Bethere router box itself on the label. Does that mean it's secured or unsecured?

Secured by default on a Bebox (Thomson TG585?). So unless you've disabled it in the config then it's secured.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

If there was a password on the router that means it had encryption turned on out of the box, my sky broadband had the same. That in itself has shown that the OEMs/distributor are getting a bit wiser. There are two forms of possibly wireless secruity WEP and WPA.

A long time ago (not sure exactly how long) WEP was cracked, this meant that anyone with a wireless card that had some specific features could monitor a encrypted wireless network and after inspect all the packets could figure out the key and reverse it. This means that any half competent nerd can crack a WEP network, the more traffic on the network the faster you will crack it. There is kind of a sport of cracking them around major cities called wardriving. I think I even heard/read some story of some guys in new york with a helicopter and a high power antenna to boost their wireless adapters

WPA, as far as I know (i just know enough networking to get by) hasnt been cracked and is pretty much secure.

The fact that your router came out of the box with security turned on is a response to the exact issue being discussed here.

ETA: keybored your comparison is pushing it a little bit as the person also using the connection has the ability to decrease the owners bandwith and therefore depriving him of something, which as someone pointed out earlier is the legal definition thats worked with.

WPA can be cracked.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Secured by default on a Bebox (Thomson TG585?). So unless you've disabled it in the config then it's secured.

no no and no. maybe i should write a how to.

 

[keybored]

ETA: keybored your comparison is pushing it a little bit as the person also using the connection has the ability to decrease the owners bandwith and therefore depriving him of something, which as someone pointed out earlier is the legal definition thats worked with.

Maybe, but I think the point was more to do with the fact that their signal is encroaching onto somebody else's property.

 

[keybored]

no no and no. maybe i should write a how to.

It is (was) on mine. Version 7 fwiw (and Be's custom FW as of November last year).

 

[grit]

WPA can be cracked.

Interesting, is it a similar brute force attempt or something else?

 

[Jackobi]

Not sure if anyone's picked up on this point but I think it's a good one. It's about as akin to "theft" as if they were playing their music too loud and you were enjoying listening to it.

Maybe, but I think the point was more to do with the fact that their signal is encroaching onto somebody else's property.

As are television and radio broadcasts, mobile phone signals etc, but it does not give anybody the automatic right to intercept them.

 

[isitme]

i'm ethical and so's my wifi

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Interesting, is it a similar brute force attempt or something else?

It's a method of decrypting and arbitrarily and successfully re-encrypting and re-injecting short packets on networks that have devices using TKIP

 

[stupid dogbot]

It's a method of decrypting and arbitrarily and successfully re-encrypting and re-injecting short packets on networks that have devices using TKIP

Not easily by the average user, eh?

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Relatively easily using freely available tools and walkthroughs. Malicious people don't tend to be average users.

 

[grit]

It's a method of decrypting and arbitrarily and successfully re-encrypting and re-injecting short packets on networks that have devices using TKIP

Sounds like a similar technique just modified, does this mean that AES-CCMP based networks have not been compromised?

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Not as far as I am aware

 

[stupid dogbot]

Malicious people don't tend to be average users.

Hmmm. There's a lot of people out there who think that running a script you've downloaded makes you a l33t haX0r, though.

Anyone who wants to go to all that effort to look at my music is welcome to, tbh.

 

[grit]

Hmmm. There's a lot of people out there who think that running a script you've downloaded makes you a l33t haX0r, though.

Yeah and we call them "script kiddies"

 

[PacificOcean]

What are the chances that any of my neighbours' password is 'password'?

I never thought of this.

With four of my local secure networks I could log on with 'password'!

I don't wish to steal anyones bandwith.

Its just Virgin Media are so shite the first appointment for an engineer I can get is Thursday.

And for this I am paying them £37 a month just for broadband.

They can piss off with their shite telly and phone offerings.

 

[tarannau]

£37 a month! Weren't you moaning that you didn't have enough money recently?

 

[PacificOcean]

£37 a month! Weren't you moaning that you didn't have enough money recently?

Priorities dear boy

I'd rather fork out £37 for a months worth of 20mb internet (when it works), than spend £80 odd quid to stand in a crowded pub all night for one evening.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Hmmm. There's a lot of people out there who think that running a script you've downloaded makes you a l33t haX0r, though.

Anyone who wants to go to all that effort to look at my music is welcome to, tbh.

it's a sliding scale.

Script kiddies certainly do know more than the average user. I would never call them 1337 h4x0r5, but I don't give a stuff about the h4x0r langauge or culture, I don't like using the term to describe those engaged in malicious activity. Hacking is not malicious. Malicious activity is malicious but the term hacker comes from a lazy media.