Using someones unsecured network. Ethical?

[jæd]

That's a fairly remote possibility. If they're sailing so incredibly close to the wind that someone downloading a few emails and web pages causes them to go over the limit, then they'd be on course for upgrading anyway.

Not only is the OP unlikely to know that, but it could be the case that they are not the only one "lightly using" the connection. (Not uncommon in urban areas)

 

[JimW]

I dont understand how does the pricing plan and transport medium for the data affect the discussion on, if its ethical to consume a service you have not paid for.

If you ethical base-line is do no harm, and you don't think you're doing any harm, then there's no ethical issue. I concede it is impossible to be 100% certain you aren't, but it's a reasonable assumption. Given OP is making light use whilst waiting for own service to be sorted, I think it's fine.

 

[grit]

If you ethical base-line is do no harm, and you don't think you're doing any harm, then there's no ethical issue. I concede it is impossible to be 100% certain you aren't, but it's a reasonable assumption. Given OP is making light use whilst waiting for own service to be sorted, I think it's fine.

Definitely in real day to day life, not taking the piss the OP prob isint really causing much harm. I'm dealing with the question from a very technical standpoint.

ETA: as I said before I would do it myself, but I would do it in the full understanding that technically what I'm doing is wrong, and debatable if its legal in the UK.

 

[berniedicters]

By that basic logic if you leave your front door unlocked its ok that i come into your house and take something.

No, not at all.

But if you leave your front door unlocked, you've rather forfeited the right to be shocked and surprised if someone does.

 

[grit]

No, not at all.

But if you leave your front door unlocked, you've rather forfeited the right to be shocked and surprised if someone does.

I dunno I had extended family down in the countryside and to my surprise the first time I visited I learned that them nor any of their neighbors would lock their front door. However in an urban environment I'd agree.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Your logic overflows with fail, squire.

If you're using someone's bandwidth for light surfing you're taking nothing from them and costing them nothing.

If it doesn't belong to you, and you use it without someone else permission by definition it's stealing. Not really ethical no matter how you may try and dress it up with words like 'light surfing'...of course it's not comparable to say murder but it's still technically not right. Unless of course you're an anarchist then you're ideology gives you a rather clever get out clause.

 

[spudulike]

Ok, I guess we're all wealthy enough to have "unlimited" packages, so might not know how someone on a tight budget might get charged. Here's an example of how it works:

Eclipse offer 2GB for £9.95 per month. Customer uses 1.9GB. Freeloader uses 200KB (15 minutes browsing?). Customer gets charged an extra £1.22.

Many people "just want the web", they don't now how it works, they don't know how their car works. Life is too short to get more knowledge over and above getting stuff to work. Start talking bandwidth dhcp secure wireless wep wpa .... you've lost them.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Not only is the OP unlikely to know that, but it could be the case that they are not the only one "lightly using" the connection. (Not uncommon in urban areas)

That's a valid point, websites aren't 50k anymore, so light use by a load of people would significantly impact their bandwidth...

 

[souljacker]

I'd be surprised if there are that many people out there these days running unsecured networks accidentally. So they either want you to use it, or its someone looking to capture everything you do so that they can hack your e-mail or steal your credit card details.

Slightly paranoid I know, but it does happen.

 

[grit]

I'd be surprised if there are that many people out there these days running unsecured networks accidentally. So they either want you to use it, or its someone looking to capture everything you do so that they can hack your e-mail or steal your credit card details.

Slightly paranoid I know, but it does happen.

A very valid point, I've spoken to some network admins who purposefully setup unsecured networks that they referred to as honey pots for the sole purpose of catching people doing this.

 

[maximilian ping]

I was using someone's connection for 2 years while downloading lots of tunes from Limewire. unfortunately i couldn't thank them because i wasn't sure who they were

 

[lozenge]

There are a lot of folk who are willing to share their connection though. Most WiFi APs seem to come with at least basic encryption turned on, and a default password these days, so it seems reasonable that if you can access it at better than 11Mbs and the SSID has been changed from the default that it was left open intentionally. Whether that's simply in the spirit of sharing, or to deliberately to scan as much traffic as possible will depend on the owners intentions. Best policy is probably to track down the owner and ask.

Edit: On preview, what souljacker said.

 

[spudulike]

If you want to share your wireless, also set your SSID to something inviting.

 

[grit]

If you want to share your wireless, also set your SSID to something inviting.

That would actually make me more paranoid and less likely to connect

 

[untethered]

If it doesn't belong to you, and you use it without someone else permission by definition it's stealing.

Indeed.

Even if there is no material loss to the unwitting donor (or you expect there not to be) it's still incredibly rude to presume that you can consume another's resources without asking first.

There may be factors of which you are unaware.

They may simply not want to share/donate, which is their right.

Either way it's their decision, not yours.

Be polite and considerate. Ask first.

 

[editor]

Either way it's their decision, not yours.

Be polite and considerate. Ask first.

So you would never, ever use an open wi-fi connection to quickly check your email until you'd knocked on on every door in the vicinity to find out who it belonged to?

Ya. Riiiight.

 

[Rainingstairs]

as long as you're not downloading bluerays... not a big deal imo

 

[Rainingstairs]

So you would never, ever use an open wi-fi connection to quickly check your email until you'd knocked on on every door in the vicinity to find out who it belonged to?

Ya. Riiiight.

How would you even know whose it is? Since networks usually have nicknames.

 

[untethered]

So you would never, ever use an open wi-fi connection to quickly check your email until you'd knocked on on every door in the vicinity to find out who it belonged to?

Ya. Riiiight.

The fact that you find it hard to believe that some people act ethically says volumes about you.

I can check my email via 3G or even dial-up. I have friends, neighbours and colleagues who I can ask to use their connection or their computer if necessary. There are libraries and internet cafes.

There's really no need to presume that you're presence on someone else's network is either welcomed nor imposes any costs on the network owner.

 

[untethered]

The sad and ironic thing about this thread is that those effectively stealing their neighbours' electricity and bandwidth think they're doing something communal -- "sharing".

Nothing could be further from the truth. Sharing is initiated by the giver, not the recipient. By taking without asking you're diminishing the social capital and mutual trust that makes any kind of reciprocal arrangements possible.

 

[Sunray]

Those radiowaves are in my room. Their use isn't using up more power because computers (including routers) are synchronous beasts. Being on and running is consuming power, me connecting or not.

If they didn't want to share, they don't have to. Ignorance isn't a very good defence. If you don't know your broadcasting to the world and have quite probably made your XP machine and its content of your wife in a gangbang available to your near neighbours, its entirely your problem.

 

[kained&able]

normal web browsing i reckon is fine.

If your streaming video(inclduing lots of youtube) or downloading a lot of things then your being a bit of a twat though.

Probabley be polite not to use spotify or internet radio as well.


dave

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

My Virgin Media broadband has been down for two days now.

I have logged online using a laptop and someone's unsecured network.

I am not downloading anything, just regular surfing and checking my emails.

It's techincally theft I suppose, but it's not like I am maxing out their connection by downloading seasons 1 to 5 of Lost.

Am I in the wrong?

Can they tell I am using it? I am just looking at regular sites rather than donkey porn.

a simple experiment i showed my old man who couldnt understand why I wanted encryption put on his network.


I took my laptop round and started running dsniff. After he found out what my little sister was upto and also the fact I could get his banking details very easily, he changed his mind.

 

[Jonti]

From an ethical point of view? its totally wrong no matter what you are doing on the connection.

What's unethical, perhaps, is to be clueless.

Look, just tell your robot gatekeeper what to do and it'll do it. Simple as.

There is no way in any sane universe that someone asking the robot for access is unethical; it's just like you were asked instead. The robot's only going to follow its owner's instructions.

 

[untethered]

Look, just tell your robot gatekeeper what to do and it'll do it. Simple as.

It's as simple as having a good understanding of networking security and the ability to configure your router correctly.

How many people with SSIDs like "NETGEAR" or "BELKIN54G" have actually made a conscious decision to leave their networks open?

Attitudes like yours are everything that's wrong with the IT world. Make things insecure by default and blame the users when something goes wrong.

 

[Jonti]

No, this doesn't dance to your tune.

Some people provide open access points on purpose; I do from time to time, and place to place. That is my affair, and I don't need the morality police arranging for a queue of people asking my permission when I've already given it!

 

[Jonti]

Attitudes like yours are everything that's wrong with the IT world. Make things insecure by default and blame the users when something goes wrong.

I do what?!

 

[untethered]

Some people provide open access points on purpose; I do from time to time, and place to place. That is my affair, and I don't need the morality police arranging for a queue of people asking my permission when I've already given it!

How might I distinguish between a network that has been left open intentionally so that it can be shared and one that is insecure by default and on which it would be wrong to presume access were welcomed or permitted?

 

[stupid dogbot]

I do what?!

You are the problem!!!!!!ONE

 

[Jonti]

In my day-to-day business, I am entitled to assume I'm dealing with competent adults and their agents; that's why there are some situations in which it is unethical to be clueless.