USA healthcare debate about 'socialised medicine' rages

[TomUS]

If Obama was white & didn't have a "funny" name, half those ignorant people wouldn't be there. That's why so many of them can't articulate exactly what they're protesting against.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

If Obama was white & didn't have a "funny" name, half those ignorant people wouldn't be there. That's why so many of them can't articulate exactly what they're protesting against.

Jimmy Carter agrees with you:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/16/jimmy-carter-racism-barack-obama

 

[London_Calling]

Jimmy Carter's playing the trump card is what he's doing.

Should buy a little space and time: Reapply as required.

 

[Azrael]

Even if Mr Carter is right, his allegation is impossible to prove in general, and will end up distracting from the issue at hand.

Speaking of which, what, in Republican eyes, is unique about healthcare? They're happy for the state to run the police, the army and the post office. They're also more than happy for the state to pump subsidies into the interstate network. What specific freedom is "socialized medicine" supposed to remove? I've yet to find out.

 

[phildwyer]

There are shortcomings to the NHS (but if we can find money for imperialistic wars why cant we find money for a better NHS with life saving cancer drugs) but why can't Americans see what is in their best interests. These banners are frightening.

But entirely unrepesentative.

Of course the vast majority of Americans want a free, national health-care system. That's why Obama was elected on a promise to provide it, like Clinton. Like Clinton, he never had any intention of fulfilling his promise.

Ask any American what he thinks of his insurance company, and you'll hear stuff that makes the anti-Obama protests sound mild.

 

[turing test]

Yeah it's a really very vocal minority. Minority or not, I bet what eventually gets passed is so watered down and ineffective as to be no improvement at all.

 

[Combustible]

From another forum, there's an interesting collection of anecdotes comparing experiences with the US and non-US systems here.

 

[dilute micro]

Your system of 'social security' seems to be unneccessarily complicated and diffuse -whos'e fault is that i wonder?


-in which case you clearly are with the 'screw 'em' camp from the so-called 'radical' right in your country.

American Social Security works like this - a % of our pay gets taken out so that one day when we're older we'll be able to draw it from the federal government. Only thing is the feds have stolen the money and won't be able to give it out when people my age will qualify to get it. But they still take the money out of out of our pay as if. It's a fraud. The government know they've used that money for other stuff but they don't do anything about it making it right again and try to fix it. This is who we're dealing with.

Camp are for sheep.

 

[London_Calling]

But entirely unrepesentative.

Of course the vast majority of Americans want a free, national health-care system. That's why Obama was elected on a promise to provide it, like Clinton. Like Clinton, he never had any intention of fulfilling his promise.

Ask any American what he thinks of his insurance company, and you'll hear stuff that makes the anti-Obama protests sound mild.

What's it got to do with the people? Lobbyists and vested interests have prevented change in the healthcare industry since FDR; Congress does not represent the people it represents who pays it the most.

Nor is it a "vast majority" who want reform - in fact it's very difficult to get accurate data either before the speech to Congress last week or since. Even polls since the speech have been skewered by polling mostly democrats.

Finally, Obama was elected not because people particularly bought his vacuous, non-specific premise of 'change' but because he wasn't another dumb ass Republican - but despite raising 4 times as much money as his opponent, despite George W. Bush's two wars, despite the coming recession and everything else, Obama polled 52 lousy percent.

 

[phildwyer]

American Social Security works like this - a % of our pay gets taken out so that one day when we're older we'll be able to draw it from the federal government. Only thing is the feds have stolen the money and won't be able to give it out when people my age will qualify to get it. But they still take the money out of out of our pay as if. It's a fraud. The government know they've used that money for other stuff but they don't do anything about it making it right again and try to fix it. This is who we're dealing with.

Have you noticed that on the annual statements, where it tells you how much you'll get if you retire at age 62, 67 etc., it now says (words to the effect of) "oh by the way, you won't be getting all this after all, more like 75% if you're lucky?"

 

[TomUS]

But entirely unrepesentative.

Of course the vast majority of Americans want a free, national health-care system. That's why Obama was elected on a promise to provide it, like Clinton. Like Clinton, he never had any intention of fulfilling his promise.

Ask any American what he thinks of his insurance company, and you'll hear stuff that makes the anti-Obama protests sound mild.

Both Clinton & Obama had every intention of providing universal health insurance. They ran into the immense power of the health care/insurance industry. Neither one proposed a "free national healthcare system." Clinon's proposal was mainly employer based insurance. Obama originally was for a single payer plan, but eventually realized it was politically impossible

And, most Americans who have insurance like it pretty well. Problem is they could lose it tomorrow if they get laid off.

 

[TomUS]

American Social Security works like this - a % of our pay gets taken out so that one day when we're older we'll be able to draw it from the federal government. Only thing is the feds have stolen the money and won't be able to give it out when people my age will qualify to get it. But they still take the money out of out of our pay as if. It's a fraud. The government know they've used that money for other stuff but they don't do anything about it making it right again and try to fix it. This is who we're dealing with.

Camp are for sheep.

You'll get your social security, maybe just not as much as promised. Taxes will go up some & benefits will be cut some.

 

[newharper]

Just so you know I really don't care if it flames or not. It's not my style to care.


So what we have is the prospect of a corrupt and inept government being put in charge (sort of) of health care.

Surely an argument in favour of sorting out the Gov't than trashing the idea of universal healthcare.