US soldier admits rape of 14 year old girl.

[nino_savatte]

Nope, just Googled him and he appears to be a mass murdering scumbag.



Nope again. I've no real interest in right wing loons.




Maybe, but it's unlikely (hopefully) to be a judge and jury of a man who has admitted to raping a 14 year old girl then killing all of her family. And I doubt it's a majority view in the US that child rape in war is okay.



I'm not ignoring anything, but I very much doubt that vast majority of the US military think that child rape and then killing her family was ok.

You are ignoring certain facts for the sake of it. If you Googled the name "William Calley" (which I doubt you've actually done) you would see that the Republican Party welcomed him with open arms at one of their conventions. You will also see that his sentence was commuted. With that sort of 'justice' on display, it is easy to see how some US soldiers will be treated: as heroes.

I'm sorry if what I have said has offended you but quite honestly, you are only nitpicking for the sake of conflict. It's also interesting how you ignored Jezza's post, despite what you say about "not ignoring anything". It is also clear that you are being selective - as this post and your others have demonstrated.

If you don't go to right wing boards, how the hell are you going to know what is being said by them? You won't. I go to r/w boards quite a lot and some of the things that are said are pretty scary. I also know the US military too. How well do you know the US military?

 

[nino_savatte]

Wishful thinking maybe?

How is it "wishful thinking"?

 

[scott_forester]

You are ignoring certain facts for the sake of it. If you Googled the name "William Calley" (which I doubt you've actually done) you would see that the Republican Party welcomed him with open arms at one of their conventions. You will also see that his sentence was commuted. With that sort of 'justice' on display, it is easy to see how some US soldiers will be treated: as heroes.

Not sure why you don't belive me, I said I never heard of him and looked him up.

I read this:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/myl_bcalleyhtml.htm

Which is number one of the Google list looks like a mass murdering scumbag to me.

I'm sorry if what I have said has offended you but quite honestly, you are only nitpicking for the sake of conflict. It's also interesting how you ignored Jezza's post, despite what you say about "not ignoring anything". It is also clear that you are being selective - as this post and your others have demonstrated.

I answered Jezza's post. Selective about what? My only point has been that I don't think these people will be treated as hero's in military prison. You seem to disagree.

If you don't go to right wing boards, how the hell are you going to know what is being said by them? You won't. I go to r/w boards quite a lot and some of the things that are said are pretty scary. I also know the US military too. How well do you know the US military?

I know parts of it pretty well, as I've done work for them in Brussels. All the ones I met seemed pretty decent. How do you know these people on the notice boards are genuine or just not really stupid? Are you using messages boards you go to as a social indicator? Is the BNP website a good indicator of what the majority of white people in this country think? From a population of 300 million who many attend your boards? It's the internet after all!

 

[Streathamite]

Wishful thinking maybe?

given the US record, how about replacing that wishful thinking with healthy cynicism

 

[nino_savatte]

Not sure why you don't belive me, I said I never heard of him and looked him up.

I read this:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/myl_bcalleyhtml.htm

Which is number one of the Google list looks like a mass murdering scumbag to me.



I answered Jezza's post. Selective about what? My only point has been that I don't think these people will be treated as hero's in military prison. You seem to disagree.




I know parts of it pretty well, as I've done work for them in Brussels. All the ones I met seemed pretty decent. How do you know these people on the notice boards are genuine or just not really stupid? Are you using messages boards you go to as a social indicator? Is the BNP website a good indicator of what the majority of white people in this country think? From a population of 300 million who many attend your boards? It's the internet after all!

I think I'm entitled to be cynical and as you claim to have worked for the US military, it's fairly obvious that your view is based on the belief that they're all nice people.

You admitted to not having looked at r/w bulletin boards but hinted that you are familiar with how they think and how many of them view this incident and those involved. By way of dismissal, you also say "How do you know these people on the notice boards are genuine or just not really stupid"? By the same token, how do I know you are genuine? But then, you say this "Is the BNP website a good indicator of what the majority of white people in this country think"? We aren't talking about the BNP here, I am talking about those who describe themselves as patriots, conservatives and so forth.

So you can Google, well I am impressed. You seemed a little to keen to ignore my queston about Calley though and only responded when I pressed you. You also appeared to ignore my point about how his sentence was commuted and how many Republicans gave him a warm welcome. I wonder why?

You seem awfully certain of yourself but then I suspect you have a reason for singling out my posts and it isn't for the reason you have claimed.

 

[scott_forester]

given the US record, how about replacing that wishful thinking with healthy cynicism

I guess I base this one two things:

1. This guy has admitted to committing this crime and hopefully this should secure a conviction for him and his pals. The US Military will want to demonstrate they aren't a bunch of thugs that will tolerate rape and murder so I suspect will want to publicly and harshly punish these people.

2. The whole pretext of the war in Iraq has began to be seriously questioned, I've been to the US a few times recently and the papers I've read seem to started to shift on their position the Iraqi War. As such things like this don't help those who are trying to pretend the US/UK mission in Iraq is achievable.

Hopefully these two factors will put pressure on the system to deliver some degree of justice. Although I may be wrong.

 

[nino_savatte]

They got caught, how many others are walking free?

 

[scott_forester]

I think I'm entitled to be cynical and as you claim to have worked for the US military, it's fairly obvious that your view is based on the belief that they're all nice people.

Fair enough, but I don't belive they are all nice people only the people I've met.

You admitted to not having looked at r/w bulletin boards but hinted that you are familiar with how they think and how many of them view this incident and those involved. By way of dismissal, you also say "How do you know these people on the notice boards are genuine or just not really stupid"? By the same token, how do I know you are genuine?

It's the internet, you don't.

But then, you say this "Is the BNP website a good indicator of what the majority of white people in this country think"? We aren't talking about the BNP here, I am talking about those who describe themselves as patriots, conservatives and so forth.

So do the BNP! My point being that if you visit extreme website you'll read extreme views, that doesn't then follow that it is anything other than a minority view.

So you can Google, well I am impressed. You seemed a little to keen to ignore my queston about Calley though and only responded when I pressed you. You also appeared to ignore my point about how his sentence was commuted and how many Republicans gave him a warm welcome. I wonder why?

You said he was a murderer who got off, I agreed with you what am I ignoring?

You seem awfully certain of yourself but then I suspect you have a reason for singling out my posts and it isn't for the reason you have claimed.

The only reason I responded to your post was that you said these people would be treated like heros, and I don't think they will. That's the only point I've ever addressed.

 

[nino_savatte]

Fair enough, but I don't belive they are all nice people only the people I've met.



It's the internet, you don't.



So do the BNP! My point being that if you visit extreme website you'll read extreme views, that doesn't then follow that it is anything other than a minority view.



You said he was a murderer who got off, I agreed with you what am I ignoring?



The only reason I responded to your post was that you said these people would be treated like heros, and I don't think they will. That's the only point I've ever addressed.

You seem to ignore the fact that mainstream right wing 'thought' in the US is pretty extreme by our standards and some of the views that I have seen expressed by these folk are considered to be fairly normal. I take it you have heard of Ann Coulter? How about Rush Limbaugh?

How do you know some of their fellow inmates won't treat them as heroes? You don't.

 

[scott_forester]

You seem to ignore the fact that mainstream right wing 'thought' in the US is pretty extreme by our standards and some of the views that I have seen expressed by these folk are considered to be fairly normal. I take it you have heard of Ann Coulter? How about Rush Limbaugh?

I've read Ann Coulter's book, it's damn funny. It's not suppose to be but it is - how to talk to a liberal. You can download extracts from it, funny stuff. Bill Hicks had Rush tagged.

How do you know some of their fellow inmates won't treat them as heroes? You don't.

Never said I knew, I said I can't believe child rapists are treated like hero's. You seem to believe they will. I thought the treatment of paedophiles in most prison wasn't particularly humane.

 

[nino_savatte]

I've read Ann Coulter's book, it's damn funny. It's not suppose to be but it is - how to talk to a liberal. You can download extracts from it, funny stuff. Bill Hicks had Rush tagged.



Never said I knew, I said I can't believe child rapists are treated like hero's. You seem to believe they will. I thought the treatment of paedophiles in most prison wasn't particularly humane.

1. The Iraqis have been dehumanised by both the military and the rest of the state. Therefore it is conceivable that many inmates will view them rather kindly.

2. The plural for the word "hero" is "heroes". "Hero's" would indicate possession.

 

[scott_forester]

1. The Iraqis have been dehumanised by both the military and the rest of the state. Therefore it is conceivable that many inmates will view them rather kindly.

2. The plural for the word "hero" is "heroes". "Hero's" would indicate possession.

Ah pedentry, the last vestige of the desperate.

/plonk

 

[nino_savatte]

Ah pedentry, the last vestige of the desperate.

/plonk

No, it's pedantry.

 

[nino_savatte]

So no comments on the process of dehumanisation that was meted out on the Iraqi populace in the media, prior to the invasion, scotty?

 

[Streathamite]

Never said I knew, I said I can't believe child rapists are treated like hero's. You seem to believe they will. I thought the treatment of paedophiles in most prison wasn't particularly humane.

there's one big thing you are missing. due to US propaganda as inflicted on soldiery, and due to the nightmare that iraq has become, large portions of the US military have been taught by their overlords - and by the totally negative coverage of arab/muslim nations in the US media - to see arabs and muslims as less than human. also, we are seeing a new 'vietnam sybndrome' here. i would not be surprised to discover, in years hence, that a VERY large proportion of GW2 combatants are mentally ill/disturbed by now.
abu-ghraib, lynndie england, sundry other atrocities here, and now this. This is the tip iof the iceberg, all of it redolent of people who thought they were hunting a deer, found they now have a tiger by the tail, and are conditioned to regard all they deal with there as subhuman.

 

[The Pious Pawn]

I can see the reason behind rape as a tool of war , But this conflict would not be one i would expect to see it used , As in this case were it was not .The rape was just the result of some sick individuals who would do the same kind of thing on the streets of america . This will not do anything to endear the american army to the iraqi people thats for sure .

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

well i wouldn't expect you to break form or the habit of a lfie time...

Point out a thread where I defended the rapist of a 14 year old.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

ermm...why are you so seemingly certain that we won't get a re-run of My Lai? Many in the Us military were utterly horrified and outraged by that atrocity - but the perpetrators still got away virtually scott-free.

No one treated Calley as a hero.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

there's one big thing you are missing. due to US propaganda as inflicted on soldiery, and due to the nightmare that iraq has become, large portions of the US military have been taught by their overlords - and by the totally negative coverage of arab/muslim nations in the US media - to see arabs and muslims as less than human. .

There you go again: stating supposition as fact.

Got any proof for what you said here?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

abu-ghraib, lynndie england, sundry other atrocities here, and now this. This is the tip iof the iceberg, all of it redolent of people who thought they were hunting a deer, found they now have a tiger by the tail, and are conditioned to regard all they deal with there as subhuman.

Alternatively, military service attracts some sociopaths and psychopaths, who then feel empowered to commit acts of brutality and atrocity while hiding behind their uniforms.

 

[Dandred]

Four posts without even addressing the issue of the thread, what a surprise carry on Johnny.............

So if you want to actually engage in this thread here is a question or two for you.......


Should the US soliders be tried in Iraq for their crimes by Iraqis? If yes would you accept a sentence passed by an Iraqi court, like death????

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Four posts without even addressing the issue of the thread, what a surprise carry on Johnny.............

So if you want to actually engage in this thread here is a question or two for you.......


Should the US soliders be tried in Iraq for their crimes by Iraqis? If yes would you accept a sentence passed by an Iraqi court, like death????

Based on your op, I didn't realize that was the issue of the thread: you don't seem to mention it:

...............................

07-08-2006, 09:43 AM
Dandred
Pb IS my GIMP Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: in the rear
Posts: 2,979

US soldier admits rape of 14 year old girl.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I thought this would just end up as another whitewash by the US and they would sweep the case under the carpet, but one of the soliders involved has addmited what actaully happened. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5253160.stm


Will the accused actualy get what they deserve? I hope so.

Will the Iraqi goverment try and get the US out faster now, and how will this go down with the US's hearts and minds approach in relation to the Iraqi people?


........................................................

If these soldiers were tried by Iraqis, I think it would be something of a first, in the circumstances. They're an occupying army.

However, there is precedent for US military personnel being tried by local civilian courts, although the facts are different. A US serviceman was tried in a Vancouver court a while back, when he drove recklessly and killed a pedestrian while on leave here.

 

[Dandred]

Based on your op, I didn't realize that was the issue of the thread: you don't seem to mention it:

...............................

07-08-2006, 09:43 AM
Dandred
Pb IS my GIMP Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: in the rear
Posts: 2,979

US soldier admits rape of 14 year old girl.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I thought this would just end up as another whitewash by the US and they would sweep the case under the carpet, but one of the soliders involved has addmited what actaully happened. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5253160.stm


Will the accused actualy get what they deserve? I hope so.

Will the Iraqi goverment try and get the US out faster now, and how will this go down with the US's hearts and minds approach in relation to the Iraqi people?


........................................................

If these soldiers were tried by Iraqis, I think it would be something of a first, in the circumstances. They're an occupying army.

However, there is precedent for US military personnel being tried by local civilian courts, although the facts are different. A US serviceman was tried in a Vancouver court a while back, when he drove recklessly and killed a pedestrian while on leave here.

So, do you think the soilders should be tried in Iraq by Iraqis or not???

 

[Dandred]

They're an occupying army.

What?!!?? Not an Iraqi hearts and minds love bringing army??????

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

So, do you think the soilders should be tried in Iraq by Iraqis or not???

No, in the circumstances, I think they should be tried in the states.

 

[Dandred]

Based on your op, I didn't realize that was the issue of the thread: you don't seem to mention it:

Based on my OP, what do you think the issue of the thread is then?????

Posting spam to get a post count???

I think I wil leave that to you Johnny

 

[Dandred]

No, in the circumstances, I think they should be tried in the states.

Why, they raped and killed an Iraqi child and her parents....

If that happened to your family by an Iranian, would you want the Iranian to be tried in Iran????

Yes or No....

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Based on my OP, what do you think the issue of the thread is then?????

Posting spam to get a post count???

I think I wil leave that to you Johnny

I thought it was 'will the soldiers get what they deserve, and will this event work to cause the US to lose the battle for hearts and minds?'

 

[Dandred]

I thought it was 'will the soldiers get what they deserve, and will this event work to cause the US to lose the battle for hearts and minds?'

Well, the hearts and minds was obviously sarcastic....... just look as the US's actions in Iraq, sorry you didn't see that before.

 

[Dandred]

If you could please answer this one for me........

Why, they raped and killed an Iraqi child and her parents....

If that happened to your family by an Iranian, would you want the Iranian to be tried in Iran????

Yes or No....

I'm still waiting Johnny Canuck2..........