US plans Moon base

[Jonti]

... if humans being cant manage it down here, what hope is there elsewhere where the odds are worse?

That's it, in a nutshell.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

I hope this time there is not a great big explostion that knocks the moon out of orbit.

Nah, can't happen without first dumping huge quantities of nuclear waste on the moon and then secondly all computers losing the ability to communicate without the use of puched paper.

Disaster averted by LCD screens

 

[MarkMark]

fuck off punched cards!!?? LMAOROFFLMAO+ x1000

get with the programme man!!

its all done using atari 2600s running pong-tennis loaded off 6ft reel to reel tapes players these days!

some martians, yesterday.

 

[goldenecitrone]

I wonder how long it would be before some right-wing think tank came up with the idea of sending all the convicts up into space like a new Australia. Not long I don't think.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

its all done using atari 2600s running pong-tennis loaded off 6ft reel to reel tapes players these days!
.[/I]

2600s are more up to date than you think. I have ghostbusters (mint in the box) for the 2600.

Just like the specy and c64.

 

[kyser_soze]

This month's Edge has a big feature on Dropzone on the 7800...

 

[G. Fieendish]

Re:MarkMark's last post
Loved the Space:1999 image....

 

[Dhimmi]

 

[david dissadent]

http://www.space.com/news/061213_moonbase_international.html

For those hammering on about US imperialism, Nasa clearly wants international participation. The cynic in me suggests it knows itll not get enough money out of congress to do this alone, and that the new Democrats are far more in favour of an internationalist aproach.

But I think making this as international as possible opens peoples minds to each other and shows the peoples of the world how fragile our earth is and that we can, as a groups of peoples, work together to survive.

It will also bring home to the billions on the earth just how difficult a working ecosystem is and not to take ours so for granted.

 

[david dissadent]

There is enough "spacial exploration waste" in space floating around already, forming a real danger for every spacecraft now and in the future and possibly for Earth itself.

No threat to earth from discarded space material. Virtualy none to its billions of inhabitants at the minute. But space debris is a matter of better engineering reducing the amount of material discarded or not moved to parking orbits and can be overcome with tighter engineering standards.

 

[david dissadent]

-Unfortunately this is no doubt part of the US plan to miltarize and control space.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2006-10-09-bush-space-policy_x.htm

and

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0509-04.htm

Colonize? I dont see why this is a problem or a threat in under 50 years time. At $20 million a person we are not in danger of huge US colony's any time soon.

But please explain to me how an international effort to explore the moon is part of the US's millitarisation of space. I cant see it affect that one way or the other myself.

 

[david dissadent]

Why would a US-only moonshot succeed where ISS has failed? Because the ISS was a joint project, this is about national prestige (especially since both China and India have ambitious space programmes of their own) as well as maintaining the US lead in technology - totally different proposition.

The ISS was what was left of the failed space station alpha project a US alone project. The costs of the ISS are nothing to do with its joint nature. Actualy several Russian modules were cheaper than there US counterparts such as the Zarya module cost $220 million against the Lokheeds proposed Bus-1 equivelent at $450 million.

One of the main costs has been the cost of launches which is 100% the USs fault. They insisted on making it a Shuttle project, which can launch 25 tonnes at cicra $750 million a launch set against the Ariane V's launch costs of circa $130 million of 20 tonnes and the costs of launching a Soyez wich costs NASA $65 million for a three man launch wich would see a shuttle being replaced by other current technology at c. $270 million at current costs (six astronauts and 20 tonnes of cargo). But had NASA backed an EEVL style launch vehicle system for the ISS then costs could have been lower still as the EEVL systems were designed for unit numbers they never achieved.

 

[david dissadent]

Well, I guess this is one occupation they may be able to pull off without getting too much trouble from the natives.

A country that can't get 1/3 of its population out of poverty, that can't protect New Orleans from a tidal wave reckons it can put a base on the moon. Tragedy is they probably can. Priorities!

It was a storm surge not a tidal wave and in terms of priorities space science has saved millions of lives by allowing weather satalites to predict many natural disasters and by giving vastly enhanced data on our ecosystem.

Virtualy no one was arguing for Weather Satalites when Sputnik went up. The point of exploring is we dont know what the benefits will be.

 

[david dissadent]

if history is any guide, the future is grim.

Space station "freedom" the forerunner to the international space station. Burned through $10 billion dollars and what did they produce ........................................................................................................... ( nothing, this is what an ESA consultant stated in a lecture at surrey uni )

Name changed to "International" space, this could end up costing $100 billion dollars.

A much better plan would be to spend the money developing space planes allowing cheap access to space for everying. But that's too much like socialism.

My prediction is that the moon base will go the way of space station "freedom", lot of money spent but little to show for the effort.

Yes investing in lowering the cost of access is by a long way the most worthwhile use of money for space, but I strongly suspect 'space planes' will not be a cost effective means at any stage in the near future.

Edited to add a 'not'.

 

[muser]

http://www.space.com/news/061213_moonbase_international.html

For those hammering on about US imperialism, Nasa clearly wants international participation. The cynic in me suggests it knows itll not get enough money out of congress to do this alone, and that the new Democrats are far more in favour of an internationalist aproach.

But I think making this as international as possible opens peoples minds to each other and shows the peoples of the world how fragile our earth is and that we can, as a groups of peoples, work together to survive.

It will also bring home to the billions on the earth just how difficult a working ecosystem is and not to take ours so for granted.

agreed. Bush in his first term wanted congressional money to go back to the moon and was advised not to take it further. A full moonbase would dwarf the 500bn quoted for bush's initial request.
The view that humans should try and save earth\learn to live sustainably here is a mute one. We will eventually run out of resources, and our energy demands can only be met in the short term by nuclear fission and fossil fuel.
The sooner we start colonizing space, the better for science and humanity's insured survival.

 

[david dissadent]

http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/rocketaday.html

Link for the space cadets alone.....

 

[WouldBe]

No threat to earth from discarded space material. Virtualy none to its billions of inhabitants at the minute. But space debris is a matter of better engineering reducing the amount of material discarded or not moved to parking orbits and can be overcome with tighter engineering standards.

Or a space bin wagon to recycle it all.

 

[Aldebaran]

But space debris is a matter of better engineering reducing the amount of material discarded or not moved to parking orbits and can be overcome with tighter engineering standards.

Probably, but until these problems are solved and what floats around removed I would recommend to avoid adding even more.

salaam.

 

[chilango]

I suggest reading Kim Stanley Robinson`s "Mars Trilogy" here....

 

[The Pious Pawn]

interesting stuff , you learn snippets of news you would never normaly come into contact with on here , good show .