US plan to undermine Hamas, arm Fatah

[Peet]

"Legitimate military targets are those which make an effective contribution to military action and whose destruction, capture or neutralization offers a definite military advantage. (Protocol I, Art. 52. Sec. 2)"

I fail to see how a bombed power station doesn't offer a definite military advantage.

"Indiscriminate attacks are those which are not directed at a specific military objective "

Anyway, so what if it is? No arab state is ever held to account for its hideous war crimes against the palestinians or anyone lese so why should Israel be singled out?

What if taking out the power was a military objective ie. to prevent communication?

 

[nino_savatte]

I fail to see how a bombed power station doesn't offer a definite military advantage.

Because those power stations supply civilian areas, not military bases. The military will always have its own source of power.

 

[disownedspirit]

peet
a genuine question
do you know when and why hizballah was formed?

 

[Peet]

Because those power stations supply civilian areas, not military bases. The military will always have its own source of power.

The miltary might but this was not a war against a conventional military and Hezbollah were hiding out in civilian quartars. Hezbollah aren't military so in effect every strike against Hezbollah is a strike against civilians. Hence why the Geneva convention is utterly irrelevant.

Hezbollah can't bleat about war crimes when it has no respect whatsoever for the people it uses as human shields.

You just can't respond to terrorism with one hand tied around your balls.

 

[Peet]

peet
a genuine question
do you know when and why hizballah was formed?

To fight the Israeli invasion among other things. A product of the civil war. Your point being?

 

[nino_savatte]

The miltary might but this was not a war against a conventional military and Hezbollah were hiding out in civilian quartars. Hezbollah aren't military so in effect every strike against Hezbollah is a strike against civilians. Hence why the Geneva convention is utterly irrelevant.

Hezbollah can't bleat about war crimes when it has no respect whatsoever for the people it uses as human shields.

You just can't respond to terrorism with one hand tied around your balls.

You're moving the goalposts now. The only folk who think the Geneva Convention is irrelevant are the US and Israel, since it is they who continually flout it by applying legalistic mechanisms to undermine it and the authority of the UN.

"One hand tied around your balls"? What an odd turn of phrase.

 

[Peet]

You're moving the goalposts now. The only folk who think the Geneva Convention is irrelevant are the US and Israel, since it is they who continually flout it by applying legalistic mechanisms to undermine it and the authority of the UN.

Hezbollah started it and they clearly don't give a flying monkies about the convention.

What the geneva convention effectively does is outlaw any kind of military response to large scale terorrism. In that respect it creates the law that terrorists can do just about anything they like and their vicitims are not allowed to respond. That's bullcrap if you ask me.

Oh and really why should we give a monkies about the UN either?

"One hand tied around your balls"? What an odd turn of phrase.

It's more painful than the usual metaphor

 

[disownedspirit]

but if its irrelevent (the geneva conventions)
why do you continually bleat on about terrorism?

 

[nino_savatte]

Hezbollah started it and they clearly don't give a flying monkies about the convention.

What the geneva convention effectively does is outlaw any kind of military response to large scale terorrism. In that respect it creates the law that terrorists can do just about anything they like and their vicitims are not allowed to respond. That's bullcrap if you ask me.



It's more painful than the usual metaphor

What do you mean "Hezbollah started it"? You are either parroting the Israeli/US line or you were living in outer space when all of this happened. I guess you missed the part about the IDF conducting covert ops in Southern Lebanon prior to the rocket attacks, eh?

Er, no, the Geneva Convention holds the military to account for its actions. It's about the only shred of humanity in an otherwise inhumane world of war, conflict, violence and death. If you took your argument to its most extreme conclusion, you'd be torturing shoplifters too.

It's more painful than the usual metaphor

Are you into S&M?

 

[Peet]

but if its irrelevent (the geneva conventions)
why do you continually bleat on about terrorism?

Why is it alright for Hezbollah to target civilians and make no effort at all to prevent civilian casualties but it's not alright for Israel to fight back?

If you start a war and throw conventions aside then the consequences are going to be a response which does likewise.

Israel was protecting its own. I can't imagine any other country doing anything else.

This is just cause and effect.

 

[nino_savatte]

So why is collective punishment okay?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Seems like a perfectly valid war tactic to me.

How something "seems" to you matters not at all.
What matters is that such action is forbidden under the (I think 3rd) Geneva Convention because it inflicts suffering on non-combatants.

Humans DID survive a long time before electricity was invented.

This is what is commonly known as a non sequitur, I do believe.

By the way, does the term "collective responsibility" mean anything to you?
Lebanon didn't do enough to put the leash on Hezbollah. Somebody had to do it.

I'm surprised you're not constantly vomiting, what with the amount of shit you write. You don't bomb and strafe civilian areas with planes because of something that's the govts' responsibility.

I get the feeling you've got shrapnel in your head, sunshine.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So why is collective punishment okay?

Because Peet is obviously an adherent of the authoritarian school of military tactics, where collective punishment is used as a tool of supression.

There's a problem with collective punishment, though. While it works in the short-term, it backfires in the long-term. Every state that has allowed collective punishment has eventually had it come back to haunt them, whether in the courts, diplomatically, or on a personal level.

 

[nino_savatte]

Because Peet is obviously an adherent of the authoritarian school of military tactics, where collective punishment is used as a tool of supression.

There's a problem with collective punishment, though. While it works in the short-term, it backfires in the long-term. Every state that has allowed collective punishment has eventually had it come back to haunt them, whether in the courts, diplomatically, or on a personal level.

Justement.

 

[moono]

Peet;

Besides, the geneva convention is utterly obsolete

It's active in the hearts of men. I don't think those men would have any difficulty in making their legal representation against Zionist arseholes. In fact, I look forward to you scraping for justification of your unhealthy claim.

 

[dylanredefined]

Geneva is out dated only because it can only be applied to states sanctioned military units .Hard to apply penalties to terrorists ,insurgents and what ever hizbollah isor get them to play by the rules .If on capture Mr terrorist knows he is going to end up in a secret torture camp .Hard to expect him to show any mercy to any prisoners he takes for example.
Dosent mean the rules shouldnt be followed .Dont inflict suffering on civillians if it can be avoided .And treat those under your power with dignity .
Got an idiot guide from the redcross just pictures maybe someone should send the idf a copy .

 

[ViolentPanda]

Got an idiot guide from the redcross just pictures maybe someone should send the idf a copy .

Perhaps you could let Peet the shrap nel victim a copy too.

 

[disownedspirit]

Perhaps you could let Peet the shrap nel victim a copy too.

nah
he's too busy working
or trying to spell geneva

 

[moono]

Peet does like to leave a lot of unexploded corkers lying around, the 'demise of the Geneva Conventions' being one of them.

I've recently tripped over ' Arabs started the 1948 war', 'Arabs encouraged Palestinians to ethnically cleanse themselves' , and now 'Hizb'allah started the Second Lebanese War'.

They're sort of holes in the ground in which he hopes to build 'foundations' later, I think.

 

[Peet]

Peet;


It's active in the hearts of men.

Not in the heart of Hezbollah it bloody isn't.

 

[Peet]

So why is collective punishment okay?

Well in the case of the Palestinians there is a collective responsibility for their choice of leadership.

 

[Peet]

I've recently tripped over ' Arabs started the 1948 war', 'Arabs encouraged Palestinians to ethnically cleanse themselves' , and now 'Hizb'allah started the Second Lebanese War'.

Sorry, I meant the 67 war. There's just so many of them.

Arabs DID encourage Palestinian arabs to flee. Look it up.

As for Hezbollah not starting the war... I suppose those missiles just launched themselves huh.

 

[ZAMB]

Well in the case of the Palestinians there is a collective responsibility for their choice of leadership.

So you don't believe in democracy? What would you have done when Sinn Fein were elected here in NI Paisley's lot didn't like it, but they had to accept it - would you have subjected them to your collective punishment, or would you have accepted them as the people's cholce and integrated them into the government - as is finally happening here.

With democracy I always thought that the will of the people was the most important thing - and Hamas were elected properly in elections with international oversight. The Israelis elected war criminals like Sharon into their government - do you not have any problem with that??

 

[ZAMB]

Arabs DID encourage Palestinian arabs to flee. Look it up.

Still spouting the Israeli propaganda, I see. That whole story was proved to be BS years ago. It never happened.

 

[Peet]

So you don't believe in democracy? What would you have done when Sinn Fein were elected here in NI Paisley's lot didn't like it, but they had to accept it - would you have subjected them to your collective punishment, or would you have accepted them as the people's cholce and integrated them into the government - as is finally happening here.

With democracy I always thought that the will of the people was the most important thing - and Hamas were elected properly in elections with international oversight. The Israelis elected war criminals like Sharon into their government - do you not have any problem with that??

I don't begrudge anyone their right to elect a bunch of terrorist thugs as leaders but they have no reason to expect that the democratic world will want to do business with them.

Anyway, This is all on the supposition that any of Israels tactics are anything like collective punishment.

 

[ZAMB]

I don't begrudge anyone their right to elect a bunch of terrorist thugs as leaders but they have no reason to expect that the democratic world will want to do business with them.

Anyway, This is all on the supposition that any of Israels tactics are anything like collective punishment.

Amnesty international call it collective punishment.
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE150452002

You call it what you want - you bloodthirsty little internet troll.

Even if one accepted your characterisation of Hamas as 'terrorist thugs' what about the terrorist thugs elected by Israel who were accepted as leaders under pressure from the US? You have a double standard which defies logic.

 

[moono]

peet;

Sorry, I meant the 67 war. There's just so many of them.

Arabs DID encourage Palestinian arabs to flee. Look it up.

As for Hezbollah not starting the war... I suppose those missiles just launched themselves huh.

Even the 1967 war was begun with an Israeli first strike.

No, the Palestinians did not ethnically-cleanse themselves. I have some detailed and authoritative accounts and lists of villages 'cleansed' by Zionist terrorists which I'll pass on to you when you've linked to some Palestinian attacks on themselves. Lol.

The Second Lebanese War was actually the opening of a second front by Hizb'allah which took the pressure off Gaza. Gaza was undergoing a savage bombardment which was condemned worldwide. (Plenty of 'worldwide condemnation ' links available, peet, just ask ) Israel's response, the pre-planned collective punishment of Lebanon with its stockpiles of surplus American munitions, including white phosphorous and cluster bombs, did come as a surprise to Nasrallah, as he admitted, but the attacks on civilian populations was another first for the good ol' Zionists.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14006.htm

Hizbollah had presumed the Israelis would cross into Lebanon after the capture of the two soldiers and they blew up the first Israeli Merkava tank when it was only 35 feet inside the country. All four Israeli crewmen were killed and the Israeli army moved no further forward. The long-range Iranian-made missiles which later exploded on Haifa had been preceded only a few weeks ago by a pilotless Hizbollah drone aircraft which surveyed northern Israel and then returned to land in eastern Lebanon after taking photographs during its flight. These pictures not only suggested a flight path for Hizbollah's rockets to Haifa; they also identified Israel's top-secret military air traffic control centre in Miron.

The next attack - concealed by Israel's censors - was directed at this facility. Codenamed "Apollo", Israeli military scientists work deep inside mountain caves and bunkers at Miron, guarded by watchtowers, guard-dogs and barbed wire, watching all air traffic moving in and out of Beirut, Damascus, Amman and other Arab cities. The mountain is surmounted by clusters of antennae which Hizbollah quickly identified as a military tracking centre. Before they fired rockets at Haifa, they therefore sent a cluster of missiles towards Miron. The caves are untouchable but the targeting of such a secret location by Hizbollah deeply shocked Israel's military planners. The "centre of world terror" - or whatever they imagine Lebanon to be - could not only breach their frontier and capture their soldiers but attack the nerve-centre of the Israeli northern military command.

So peet, your little hazbara packages don't amount to a lot, do they.

 

[TomUS]

There's a problem with collective punishment, though. While it works in the short-term, it backfires in the long-term. Every state that has allowed collective punishment has eventually had it come back to haunt them, whether in the courts, diplomatically, or on a personal level.

Don't both sides practice collective punnishment? Doesn't showering Israeli towns with rockets & missiles & sending squads of suicide bombers to blow up Israeli restraunts & busses qualify?

 

[nino_savatte]

Well in the case of the Palestinians there is a collective responsibility for their choice of leadership.

Bullshit.

 

[nino_savatte]

Don't both sides practice collective punnishment? Doesn't showering Israeli towns with rockets & missiles & sending squads of suicide bombers to blow up Israeli restraunts & busses qualify?

No, you deliberately overlook the evidence to paint a particular narrative. Why did the entire Lebanese nation deserve to get carpet bombed, when the so-called real targets of Israel were Hizb' Allah?