US Muslim chops off wife's head

[pk]

As for the Koran encouaging violence towards women - it doesn't.

What people need is translations of the Koran in their own language so they can see what it says, rather than relying on some fuckwit priest/mullah with his own agenda, like the Europeans did in the middle ages when the bibles were all Latin.

 

[diego]

I do happen to know many women from the middle east inlcuding these two countries and funnily enough they seem to be happy living there.
Diego

This is a symptom of the human mind, not evidence of anything else. People will generally make the most of any given situation if forced to endure it long enough. It is also true that if an entire section of society is brought up to believe that they are inferior, many will believe that even in the face of a contradictory opinion.

That is a very wide assumption to make about millions of women in that part of the world. Some of the ones I referred to in my previous posts are well educated and one is a senior doctor. But I guess if they are all suffering from this "symptom of the human mind" then they wont really know will they?

Like I posted already the statistic about american women and the abuse they suffer does not compare with the alleged and potential threat to women in the east or are they just living in fear?

Also refering to any source of information that you don't agree with as propaganda is rather unfortunate as it means that there can be no argument, as I doubt I could find a source you would be happy to accept.

http://www.arabdemocracy.com/2009/02/is-muslims-treatment-of-women-islamic.html

How about this? A story about school girls being locked into a burning building by the Religious police of Saudi Arabia.

The overall argument of the piece is that this treatment of women is not Islamic. So it doesn't suit the "propaganda" that you see in Western reporting of the issues, yet it re-tells the same story. It may present the idea that this is not in fact Islamic, but that doesn't change the fact that it was the Islamic Religious police that took this action. A clear example of the mistreatment of women in an Islamic State by the Islamic Religious police....I agree with the piece in general principle, but that isn't the principle we are arguing. You are arguing that any piece that projects an image of mistreatment of women in an Islamic state is Western propaganda.

Likewise I can find countless articles about western incidents including those involving priests and young boys as just one example, but would they represent that country or religion as a whole? No it wouldn't.

 

[diego]

http://www.rawa.us/movies/beating.mpg

Here you go then. Footage from RAWA.

Thanks for that I missed the bit at the start though where the disclaimer reads "this is a true representation of Islam and religion signed by the Grand Mufti and the Pope and Vatican"

 

[diego]

As for the Koran encouaging violence towards women - it doesn't.

What people need is translations of the Koran in their own language so they can see what it says, rather than relying on some fuckwit priest/mullah with his own agenda, like the Europeans did in the middle ages when the bibles were all Latin.

There are plenty available, you just need to ensure that when you copy and paste you dont miss out important words that would otherwise misrepresent the statement!

 

[pk]

Thanks for that I missed the bit at the start though where the disclaimer reads "this is a true representation of Islam and religion signed by the Grand Mufti and the Pope and Vatican"

It's a true representation of how the Taliban treat women in Afghanistan, and you fucking know it too.

 

[Spymaster]

No I don't but again haven't seen any proof, oh shit well again I forgot the good old western propagnda machine.

Do you consider Amnesty International to be part of the "western propaganda machine"?

The authorities continued to suppress dissent. Journalists, writers, scholars, and women’s rights and community activists were subject to arbitrary arrest, travel bans, closure of their NGOs and harassment. Armed opposition, mainly by Kurdish and Baluchi groups, continued, as did state repression of Iran’s minority communities. Discrimination against women remained entrenched in law and practice. Torture and other ill-treatment were widespread in prisons and detention centres. A security clampdown announced in April was marked by a sharp rise in executions; at least 335 people were executed, among them seven child offenders. Sentences of stoning to death, amputation and flogging continued to be passed and carried out.

The human rights situation remained dire although legal reforms were announced and there was continuing public debate about women’s rights. Hundreds of people suspected of terrorism were arrested and detained in virtual secrecy, and thousands of people arrested in previous years remained in prison. Those arrested included prisoners of conscience, among them peaceful advocates of political reform. Women continued to suffer severe discrimination in law and practice. Torture and other ill-treatment of detainees were common and prisoners were sentenced to flogging and amputation. At least 158 people were executed, including a child offender.

What proof do you want?

http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/regions/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia

http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/regions/middle-east-and-north-africa/iran

 

[Spymaster]

....in actual fact it (democracy) is a cloak behind which our so called leaders abuse their positions to brainwash people using various methods.

Explain what those methods are rather than just repeating the nutty mantras you've picked up down the mosque?

At least with religion we know where we stand there is no pussy footing around and if you dont like it then dont follow it.

Care to tell that to people in Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia etc.

No, I thought not

But with our so called western democracy "if you dont like it - tough your gonna get it anyway".

As opposed to "If you don't like it, we'll torture and kill you"?

Most people though, do want to live in a democracy. You see if they didn't there is a system for them to say so. That's err, democracy. There are many millions of people campaigning to change aspects of the democracies in which they live, with varying degrees of success and opposition, fair and foul. The fact that they are generally able to do so without fear of imprisonment or execution is in itself testament to the superiority of secular democracy over authoritarian theocracy. Dontcha think????

What happened to your democracy when millions marched against the Iraq war ...

It was trampled by corrupt politicians, led, in this country, by Mr Anthony Blair.

what happened to your beloved democracy that actively promotes regime changes in the Islamic states you refer to and ask me questions about and then keep propped up rogue leaders that install their version of Islam supported quietly by the western "DEMOCRACIES".

Not in my name. I am fortunate enough to live in a secular society where I am able to be openly critical of our government without fear of persecution.

I am not anti-democracy its just your version of democracy stinks...

What is my version? What version of democracy doesn't stink to you?

I am pro-religion but not for the extreme twisted versions that are used by people for their own motives

So why are you posting to defend those "extreme twisted versions" that masquerade as governments in countries like Iran and Saudi?

Well were back to that good old "freedom of expression" as long as it's within reason eh? Coz if not then well fatwahs will be issued.

Well yes, I believe in a degree of censorship; albeit extremely light. As I say, I draw the line at promoting paedophilia and inciting hatred and violence. Beyond that I believe people should be able to say, do and believe pretty much what they like. I don't regard freedom in absolute terms. What about you?

Do you support the issuance of fatwas for blasphemy and apostasy?

So have you decided then Freedom or not?

Asked and answered a couple of times now. You seem to think you have some kind of point here, Diego. You don't.

 

[Mindlessly]

That is a very wide assumption to make about millions of women in that part of the world. Some of the ones I referred to in my previous posts are well educated and one is a senior doctor. But I guess if they are all suffering from this "symptom of the human mind" then they wont really know will they?
Diego

Read in conext, many of the people who were opposed to suffrage were well educated, well to do women. Just because you are well educated doesn't make you immune to the "symptom of the human mind" and it doesn't mean you can't be brainwashed.

Likewise I can find countless articles about western incidents including those involving priests and young boys as just one example, but would they represent that country or religion as a whole? No it wouldn't.
Diego

Those instances of Priests abusing young boys and girls isn't a similar example.

Are the priests now able to walk the streets and tell people how to dress? Who they should be with? Who the fire services can rescue and who they can not? And be Sanctioned by the State with authority to do that?

So where is the comparison? You are making a comparison that everyone can do bad things....that isn't the point being raised, the point isn't that Islamic people are doing bad things, the point being raised is that these bad things are being done in the name of Islam and are being done with the full support of the State.

That is the point you are not answering.

 

[pk]

Latest joke from Saudi Arabia - lingerie shops are staffed entirely by men.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7908866.stm

 

[Disjecta Membra]

yep hes a wanker(a crazy one)

soz just for post count

 

[Andy the Don]

Latest joke from Saudi Arabia - lingerie shops are staffed entirely by men.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7908866.stm

Tis a tough job, but someone's got to do it... lucky bastards..

 

[CyberRose]

Thanks for that I missed the bit at the start though where the disclaimer reads "this is a true representation of Islam and religion signed by the Grand Mufti and the Pope and Vatican"

There is no "true" representation of Islam, Jesus you really don't know anything about this topic at all do you? All you care about is how many "white middle class" points you can score by being the least "racist". Get your head out of the clouds and open your eyes ffs!

If you knew anything about Islam (or religion in general for that matter) you'd know how many civil wars have been fought because some Muslims are Sunni and some Muslims are Shiites (and that's only two sects of Islam among many many more). Exactly the same for Christianity, there is no "true" representation of it, only lots of interpretations.

It just so happens that some interpretations of a religion are extreme and should be opposed at all costs. Many sects of Islam have their extremist and fundamentalist manifestations and these need to be opposed. Wahabism, which is an export of the extremist Saudi Arabian interpretation of Islam, is an extreme form of Islam that is successfully spreading around the world thanks to Saudi petro dollars. This is something to be opposed and it wouldn't surprise me if acts like women's heads being cut off out of revenge are in some way linked to the proliferation in the West of Wahabism (or, in this country, due to the high population of South Asians, Deobandism)

The fact is, you're no Islamic scholar so you can't tell us there is one true form of Islam because by doing that you're no better than the clowns like Wilders who also claim there is only one true form of Islam - the only difference you claim the only true form is "peaceful" Islam and he claims the only true form is "violent" Islam - you're both as idiotic and ignorant as each other if you think there's only one true form of Islam (or any other religion for that matter)