US May Shoot Down N. Korea Missile

[zoltan]

Anyway, hes not as much a hated figure as you think :

"Kim Il Sung Praised as Greatest Man in S. Korea
Pyongyang, July 9 (KCNA) -- The vice-chairman of the Central Committee of the Anti-Imperialist National Democratic Front issued a statement on July 8, the 12th anniversary of demise of President Kim Il Sung, according to Internet site Kuguk Jonson. The statement said that Kim Il Sung is the distinguished leader unprecedented in history and the great revolutionary, outstanding statesman and peerlessly great sage who enjoyed profound respect and praises from all people for his feats and high prestige.
Kim Il Sung was highly lauded as a veteran statesman in the world and the greatest man representing the 20th century as he made undying contributions to the human cause of independence through his energetic external activities all his life, it noted, and went on:
The Juche cause, the Songun revolutionary cause started by Kim Il Sung in Mt. Paektu has been successfully carried forward by Kim Jong Il, the sun of the 21st century and the peerless Songun brilliant commander.
Kim Il Sung will always live in the hearts of the Korean nation and humankind as the sun of Juche thanks to Kim Jong Il possessed of intense loyalty to Kim Il Sung and extraordinary political ability.
The Korean people will further glorify the undying feats performed by Kim Il Sung in accomplishing the cause of national reunification and give further spurs to the nationwide grand march for reunification under the uplifted banner of "By our nation itself" and thus bring earlier the day of reunification without fail when all the fellow countrymen will live together after putting an end to the U.S. colonial domination and military occupation. "

that this is an OFFICAL DPRK press statement .

http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm

 

[david dissadent]

Shinzo Abe. Everything I read about him seems to paint him as a right wing hawk who favours removing pacifism from the Japanese constitution and pre emtive strikes against North Korea.

Does anyone have anything more substansive than his Wikipedia and BBC news biogs?

 

[mears]

1) yes I do funnily enough - otherwise things could be a great deal worse for his neighbours - The Dear Leader does not actually have a Pyscotic desire to go out in a ball of flames along with his country - he wants to survive for aas long as possible - I would sooner have him selling countefeit cigs than weapons if he had to do something & we all can see that his weapons are a PR victory rather than an engineering triumph - who knows what else the DPRK would get into if t were not for their black market activities - remember this fellow is regarded as a bogeyman already - what is to stop him getting involved in slight more heinous things that the odd fake buck or rubbish cigarette ? For the sake of the DPRKs tragic population, anything is worth avoiding some suicidal showdown with serious opposition.Theres nothiung noble in dying for a cause.

2)The world would be a better place without many many leaders IMO - IM sure you can guess one or two of them in addition to Kim - but Im sure you realise that the dear leader is a diversion here - he poses little real threat, apart from a one off suicide excursion into the South - which wont happen for obvious reasons. Some would argue that the Kim family duration of reign is inextricably linked to AmeriKan Foreign policy since WW2.He is a sideshow to the legacy of the cold war and a cartoon villain for the saps who lap up this pre digested media hate campaign. he is an extreme twat granted - 100% - but there are many more who think like him & act like him , 'cept they are considered allies or friends .

All America all the time.

If not for the US support of the south in the Korean war all of Korea could be held by Pyongyang. Instead of starving north Koreans, Mr. Kim could be starving all Koreans.

Sure you think the world would be a better place without George Bush, but you only have him a couple years longer, Mr. Blair could go at anytime. And North Korea? Well Why would anyone want to get rid of the dear leader?

I would try to subvert the North Korean regime. Bring in books and cell phones. Provide cash to high up defectors. Beam in all kinds of radio and television. Build networks and send them back into N. Korea to destabilize the regime. Graffitti, illicit posters, the pictures mocking the dear leader. I think we owe that much to the North Korean people. What do you think?

Not providing arms mind you, just the aforementioned materials.

 

[mears]

Anyway, hes not as much a hated figure as you think :

"Kim Il Sung Praised as Greatest Man in S. Korea
Pyongyang, July 9 (KCNA) -- The vice-chairman of the Central Committee of the Anti-Imperialist National Democratic Front issued a statement on July 8, the 12th anniversary of demise of President Kim Il Sung, according to Internet site Kuguk Jonson. The statement said that Kim Il Sung is the distinguished leader unprecedented in history and the great revolutionary, outstanding statesman and peerlessly great sage who enjoyed profound respect and praises from all people for his feats and high prestige.
Kim Il Sung was highly lauded as a veteran statesman in the world and the greatest man representing the 20th century as he made undying contributions to the human cause of independence through his energetic external activities all his life, it noted, and went on:
The Juche cause, the Songun revolutionary cause started by Kim Il Sung in Mt. Paektu has been successfully carried forward by Kim Jong Il, the sun of the 21st century and the peerless Songun brilliant commander.
Kim Il Sung will always live in the hearts of the Korean nation and humankind as the sun of Juche thanks to Kim Jong Il possessed of intense loyalty to Kim Il Sung and extraordinary political ability.
The Korean people will further glorify the undying feats performed by Kim Il Sung in accomplishing the cause of national reunification and give further spurs to the nationwide grand march for reunification under the uplifted banner of "By our nation itself" and thus bring earlier the day of reunification without fail when all the fellow countrymen will live together after putting an end to the U.S. colonial domination and military occupation. "

that this is an OFFICAL DPRK press statement .

http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm

No one around here is going to call out this idiot? Quoting an article from the this source?

You people really are pathetic.

 

[zoltan]

you should take a vacation mears you areally are wound up a but too tightly for your own good

anyway, if your old hero General McArthur had got a his way, he would have ensured that there was no great leader, or dear leader or most of China come to think about it - 50 nukes would have made a big difference to the region. I suppsoe you view this as a missed opportunity then Mears ?

 

[nino_savatte]

All America all the time.

I speak your weight. Insert coin.

 

[mears]

you should take a vacation mears you areally are wound up a but too tightly for your own good

anyway, if your old hero General McArthur had got a his way, he would have ensured that there was no great leader, or dear leader or most of China come to think about it - 50 nukes would have made a big difference to the region. I suppsoe you view this as a missed opportunity then Mears ?

General McArthur lost his job Einstein. No bombs fell and thousands of US troops stopped the communist advancement in Korea.

Communism means economic misery and single party dictatorship. Unless you would like to name an example otherwise? Exactly

Without those US troops all of is Korea communist. All of korea subservient to a Stalinist dictator.

 

[nino_savatte]

You haven't dealt with the point zoltan made, mears. MacArthur advocated the use of nuclear weapons against China and was removed from office by Truman. It would be fair to say that both Roosevelt and Truman saw him as a threat and it would also be fair to say that MacArthur had positioned himself to take control during the 30's until he was dispatched to the Phillipines.

If MacArthur had had his way, none of us would be talking on this board today.

 

[zoltan]

The USA didnt & probably still doesnt give a shit about the Koreans - the whole penninsula is just a proxy battlefield far far away from white picket fences, freedom of choice and Moms apple pie. West germany was lucky enough to be in the same position until very recently,as were us Brits come to think about it.

The one obstacle which is carried though in all third rate press releases from the KNCA is the thorn in the side , namely USA presence in the penninsula- long long after China & Russia ferried their boys back home,you still have a disruptive presence in the area - under the flimsiest of reasons.

Whether we belive that The Dear leader is a corrupt manipulator or the embodiment of good on earth, the antagonism on sustained US presence in the region has kept the hostilities fired up for 50 years.

Can you imagine being at war effectively with Mexico for 50 years ? with an occupation force of 35,000 troops from canada sitting on your border for half a century, refusing to let you make peace with Mexico and sabre rattling on a frequesnt enough basis to keep the Mexicans paranoid ?


thats whats its like down there at the minute


anyway, my good friends at Koryo have managed to get some US citizens admission to the DPRK for next year - you should sign up & go along for yourself- once in a lifetime experience :

http://www.koryogroup.com/tours/index-us.html

 

[zoltan]

AND DONT CONFUSE COMMUNISM WITH DICTATORSHIPS!!!!! If you dont know what communism is, just ask, but please dont fall into the DRPK/CHINA/USSR= Communism bollocks!

I expect you must have a better understanding of basic politcal theory than that!"

 

[TonkaToy]

they would still be there (like the US army is still in germany cos it's another key location) but the idea that north korea is a 'buffer zone' to protect the chinese from a land invasion by US or Korean forces is bollocks

they are a very convenient 'ally' for china since they are building fucking huge bombs that could hit america, and the person who gets the blame is some div like kim jong il instead of the not so dippy cunts in the CCP

What is "key" about the location?

The US army may still be in Germany but there is a hell of a lot less of them. There is no escaping the fact, that there would not be anywhere near 38,000 troops in Korea without the North threatening to unify the South by force.

 

[TonkaToy]

The USA didnt & probably still doesnt give a shit about the Koreans - the whole penninsula is just a proxy battlefield far far away from white picket fences, freedom of choice and Moms apple pie. West germany was lucky enough to be in the same position until very recently,as were us Brits come to think about it.

The one obstacle which is carried though in all third rate press releases from the KNCA is the thorn in the side , namely USA presence in the penninsula- long long after China & Russia ferried their boys back home,you still have a disruptive presence in the area - under the flimsiest of reasons.

Whether we belive that The Dear leader is a corrupt manipulator or the embodiment of good on earth, the antagonism on sustained US presence in the region has kept the hostilities fired up for 50 years.

Can you imagine being at war effectively with Mexico for 50 years ? with an occupation force of 35,000 troops from canada sitting on your border for half a century, refusing to let you make peace with Mexico and sabre rattling on a frequesnt enough basis to keep the Mexicans paranoid ?


thats whats its like down there at the minute


anyway, my good friends at Koryo have managed to get some US citizens admission to the DPRK for next year - you should sign up & go along for yourself- once in a lifetime experience :

http://www.koryogroup.com/tours/index-us.html

There needs to me more troops in the area not less. Tell me which one of the 3 countries involved has been threatening unification by force?

Tell me which party is responsible for blowing up a South Korean jet?

Sure, the US should pack up and leave.

Next you'll be telling me how the landmines should be cleared up.

Have you ever spoken to a South Korean in your entire life?

I used to work with them every day and they all think their counterparts in the North are fucking nuts.

 

[TonkaToy]

AND DONT CONFUSE COMMUNISM WITH DICTATORSHIPS!!!!! If you dont know what communism is, just ask, but please dont fall into the DRPK/CHINA/USSR= Communism bollocks!

I expect you must have a better understanding of basic politcal theory than that!"

I've yet to meet a Communist who doesn't believe that the system won't work unless it's universal....and from there is normally turns into a slow train crash....

 

[zoltan]

What is "key" about the location?

The US army may still be in Germany but there is a hell of a lot less of them. There is no escaping the fact, that there would not be anywhere near 38,000 troops in Korea without the North threatening to unify the South by force.

I think its the proximity to China rather than anything to do with the DPRK itself - as weve mentioned, the Korean Question is a side matter here - the overiding emphasis must be the presence of a significant US presence in Asia itself & a stop off point to China.The same reason whay US NUkes were situated ion Germany - its proximity to a potential enemy that matters

with the development of newer weapons like ICBMs etc etc , the need for a physical presence of US forces near to China has waned dramatically, but after 50 years of maintaining the pressure on the penninsular, the US has to retain a presence there - many would arge that what we have is the result of US policy since the end of the Koean War

you must remember that the Korean war was mostly USA vs China , with both sides using the relative Korean nations as an excuse. for bother

 

[nino_savatte]

AND DONT CONFUSE COMMUNISM WITH DICTATORSHIPS!!!!! If you dont know what communism is, just ask, but please dont fall into the DRPK/CHINA/USSR= Communism bollocks!

I expect you must have a better understanding of basic politcal theory than that!"

To mears, communism is the same thing as a dictatorship. He conveniently igonres the fact that some of the most brutal dictatorships were fascist or falangist (in the case of Spain) and the US, while paying lip service to the idea of freedom, continues to do business with tyrants.

 

[zoltan]

Have you ever spoken to a South Korean in your entire life?

.

been to both countries as it happens

Its doesnt help that Seoul has regular attack drills here the enire population has rush into bunkers at the sound of the klaxon - like the US in the 50's & '60s, the population are scared shitless by the bogeyman who couls dtrike at any time.

its alos keeps things under control alot easier & ensures the occuyping forces have further reason to remain "safeguarding" the country form the red menace to the North.

The US has had a fragile relationship with Asia , since gunboats were sent to Japan & demanded they open up to trade or else a couple of hundred years ago. WHat better reason to stake your claim right in the centre of the action that to use "defence " as a reason ?

 

[Streathamite]

Anyway, hes not as much a hated figure as you think :

"Kim Il Sung Praised as Greatest Man in S. Korea
Pyongyang, July 9 (KCNA) -- The vice-chairman of the Central Committee of the Anti-Imperialist National Democratic Front issued a statement on July 8, the 12th anniversary of demise of President Kim Il Sung, according to Internet site Kuguk Jonson. The statement said that Kim Il Sung is the distinguished leader unprecedented in history and the great revolutionary, outstanding statesman and peerlessly great sage who enjoyed profound respect and praises from all people for his feats and high prestige.
Kim Il Sung was highly lauded as a veteran statesman in the world and the greatest man representing the 20th century as he made undying contributions to the human cause of independence through his energetic external activities all his life, it noted, and went on:
The Juche cause, the Songun revolutionary cause started by Kim Il Sung in Mt. Paektu has been successfully carried forward by Kim Jong Il, the sun of the 21st century and the peerless Songun brilliant commander.
Kim Il Sung will always live in the hearts of the Korean nation and humankind as the sun of Juche thanks to Kim Jong Il possessed of intense loyalty to Kim Il Sung and extraordinary political ability.
The Korean people will further glorify the undying feats performed by Kim Il Sung in accomplishing the cause of national reunification and give further spurs to the nationwide grand march for reunification under the uplifted banner of "By our nation itself" and thus bring earlier the day of reunification without fail when all the fellow countrymen will live together after putting an end to the U.S. colonial domination and military occupation. "

that this is an OFFICAL DPRK press statement .

http://www.kcna.co.jp/index-e.htm

ermm....you do know you've just presented a north korean press release as a glowing review, don't you?

 

[Streathamite]

What is "key" about the location?

The US army may still be in Germany but there is a hell of a lot less of them. There is no escaping the fact, that there would not be anywhere near 38,000 troops in Korea without the North threatening to unify the South by force.

...and if you were honest, you'd know that threat is a very old one, and no-one inpyongyang (and most informed opinion in seoul) knows it's a paper tiger

 

[zoltan]

ermm....you do know you've just presented a north korean press release as a glowing review, don't you?

Im taking the piss

Mears loves it.

 

[mears]

The USA didnt & probably still doesnt give a shit about the Koreans - the whole penninsula is just a proxy battlefield far far away from white picket fences, freedom of choice and Moms apple pie. West germany was lucky enough to be in the same position until very recently,as were us Brits come to think about it.

The one obstacle which is carried though in all third rate press releases from the KNCA is the thorn in the side , namely USA presence in the penninsula- long long after China & Russia ferried their boys back home,you still have a disruptive presence in the area - under the flimsiest of reasons.

Whether we belive that The Dear leader is a corrupt manipulator or the embodiment of good on earth, the antagonism on sustained US presence in the region has kept the hostilities fired up for 50 years.

Can you imagine being at war effectively with Mexico for 50 years ? with an occupation force of 35,000 troops from canada sitting on your border for half a century, refusing to let you make peace with Mexico and sabre rattling on a frequesnt enough basis to keep the Mexicans paranoid ?


thats whats its like down there at the minute


anyway, my good friends at Koryo have managed to get some US citizens admission to the DPRK for next year - you should sign up & go along for yourself- once in a lifetime experience :

http://www.koryogroup.com/tours/index-us.html

I would like to go to North Korea. A chance to see one of the last failues of a command economy before they completely expire from the face of the earth.

Thank you, west germany and britian were fortunate to be under the umbrella of US power. They could re-build their countries after WWII. The continent finally adopted the democratic principles from the American founding fathers of the 18th century.

It took WWI and WWII and many dirty tyrants, a flirt with single party dictatorships in the guise of fascism and communism. But you finally adopted the principles of the American revolution.

And Europe has never witnessed the peace and prosperity since adopting those principles.

 

[nino_savatte]

It took WWI and WWII and many dirty tyrants, a flirt with single party dictatorships in the guise of fascism and communism. But you finally adopted the principles of the American revolution.

And the dictatorships that were supported unequivocably by the US? What of them? Who "adopted the principles of the American revolution"? I suspect you're talking more tendentious crap here.

Interesting that you shoiuld mention the so-called American Revolution, because it really wasn't a revolution at all, it was a War of Independence. The status quo held onto the reins of power until they were forced to allow suffrage to all white males. The US differed little from the European states apart from the fact that they had no monarch. Nonetheless, the president has powers that are the equivalent of any monarch and the president has to be physically perfect (no handicaps) and must certainly be male. Which is all rather reminiscent of Salic law methinks.

 

[zoltan]

I would like to go to North Korea. A chance to see one of the last failues of a command economy before they completely expire from the face of the earth.

Thank you, west germany and britian were fortunate to be under the umbrella of US power. They could re-build their countries after WWII. The continent finally adopted the democratic principles from the American founding fathers of the 18th century.

It took WWI and WWII and many dirty tyrants, a flirt with single party dictatorships in the guise of fascism and communism. But you finally adopted the principles of the American revolution.

And Europe has never witnessed the peace and prosperity since adopting those principles.

I love you mears

 

[Streathamite]

Thank you, west germany and britian were fortunate to be under the umbrella of US power. They could re-build their countries after WWII. The continent finally adopted the democratic principles from the American founding fathers of the 18th century.

It took WWI and WWII and many dirty tyrants, a flirt with single party dictatorships in the guise of fascism and communism. But you finally adopted the principles of the American revolution.

And Europe has never witnessed the peace and prosperity since adopting those principles.

hello mears, MEARS???!!!!
we already had those 'principles', firmly enshrined in european society, they were a 100% european creation which the seps cannily adopted and adopted. They were based on books and pamphlets written by europeans, just as the Us constitution is based on european documents.
jesus, this degree of ignorance is painful.

 

[phildwyer]

And the dictatorships that were supported unequivocably by the US? What of them? Who "adopted the principles of the American revolution"? I suspect you're talking more tendentious crap here.

Interesting that you shoiuld mention the so-called American Revolution, because it really wasn't a revolution at all, it was a War of Independence. The status quo held onto the reins of power until they were forced to allow suffrage to all white males. The US differed little from the European states apart from the fact that they had no monarch. Nonetheless, the president has powers that are the equivalent of any monarch and the president has to be physically perfect (no handicaps) and must certainly be male. Which is all rather reminiscent of Salic law methinks.

You truly are an ignoranamus, Nino. The President does not have monarchical powers, he does not have to be "physically perfect" (FDR, JFK), and he certainly doesn't have to be male. I suggest you keep your mouth shut until you know what you're talking about. That should be good for about twenty years...

 

[Yossarian]

It took WWI and WWII and many dirty tyrants, a flirt with single party dictatorships in the guise of fascism and communism. But you finally adopted the principles of the American revolution.

What principles - it's OK to keep slaves and massacre Indians as long as you have some flowery language about freedom on a bit of paper?

I guess the Serbs in Bosnia might have picked up a few ideas from the American militias' treatment of the Cherokee and a lot of other peoples along the frontier...

 

[zoltan]

Dont suppose youve heard of Locke have you Mears ? Lived in Europe for a while and could well have set the philisophical groundwork for yer founding fathers.

 

[nino_savatte]

You truly are an ignoranamus, Nino. The President does not have monarchical powers, he does not have to be "physically perfect" (FDR, JFK), and he certainly doesn't have to be male. I suggest you keep your mouth shut until you know what you're talking about. That should be good for about twenty years...

No phil, it is you who is the ignoramus. The presidents that you have mentioned kept their illnesses/disabilities from the presss and the public. If they hadn't they'd have never been elected president.

I suggest you shut up, fuck off, die or do something but please don't infest these boards with your shite.

E2A: I knew someone like you owuld come along and mention FDR/JFK. Too bad that you weren't prepared for the answer.

 

[kyser_soze]

Dwyer is right on the subject of the powers of the President tho - the office certainly doesn't have absolute monarchical powers.

Anyway...

It took WWI and WWII and many dirty tyrants, a flirt with single party dictatorships in the guise of fascism and communism. But you finally adopted the principles of the American revolution.

And Europe has never witnessed the peace and prosperity since adopting those principles.

Historical ignoramus is all I can say to that.

Also - your 'war of independence' only happened because of George III being possibly the most incompetent King in British history. Until he started imposing stupid taxes and laws the American Colonialists were, by and large, not chomping at the bit for a break from the Old Country (and oh, what a different world it would be had GIII not fucked it all up - no USA as we know it but rather a continent that was split between the Brits, French and Spaniards...)

 

[nino_savatte]

The powers of the president are great and exceed those of most European monarchs. While there isn't the idea of divine right, the president is to be respected in such a way that we would find loathsome: the hero worship etc.

 

[zoltan]

checks and balances are supposed to come into play here - am I right Mears ?

the Prez vs the Juduiciary vs the Congress should mean that there is no room for a Prez to get out of hand.

Great theory, but somewhat devalued by the Prez retaining the right to appoint new Supreme Court Judges on the retirement ( or more likely Death ) of the old ones..........7/9 of the present Judges are Republican appontees and will be there 'til they die pretty much.

Oh well, good idea.