US elections - voting day, results and what not!

[Barking_Mad]

If I hear a journo report Obama as being "the first black President" I swear ill kick the tv to small pieces.

 

[ohmyliver]

As in a schism between moderate, secular Repugs and their swivel-eyed, bible thumping counterparts? Who would win a battle for the soul of the GOP? Would the Christians take it just by dint of their fearsome capacity for mass mobilisation? Judging by the turnouts on the Palinopalooza tour, I'd say that the core Republican vote seems fairly clearly demarcated.

going by what is 'permitted' on Freerepublic I'd say that the theocons have allready taken over. Look at the evolution versus creation arguements, and the actions of moderators in banning some of the key defenders of evolution from the site.

 

[dilute micro]

A lot of Republicans are backtracking saying that this is not as important election as is being made out.

But for one thing, it will mark the death throes of the Republican consensus.

Very true. This is the beginning of a whole new era I think. This is the most important in recent times.

 

[dilute micro]

If I hear a journo report Obama as being "the first black President" I swear ill kick the tv to small pieces.

I think you're going to hear that a lot.

 

[dilute micro]

Should African-Americans with some European blood be called something different from African-Americans with no European blood?

I'm an English-American. Spot on, innit?

 

[skyscraper101]

Its so painful watching Sky News coverage... Barack Obama is taking 10-12 mins to vote and the comentator is struggling to find wrds to fill the space while he stands at the voting booth!

 

[agricola]

going by what is 'permitted' on Freerepublic I'd say that the theocons have allready taken over. Look at the evolution versus creation arguements, and the actions of moderators in banning some of the key defenders of evolution from the site.

Freep is (like Kos) not especially indicative of majority opinion. Redstate is a better site for that.

 

[girasol]

Its so painful watching Sky News coverage... Barack Obama is taking 10-12 mins to vote and the comentator is struggling to find wrds to fill the space while he stands at the voting booth!

Can't he make his mind up?

The man has immense amounts of charisma and is the best public speaker there has been for a long time - if he wins the whole world will think of America as a sensible country, rather than one ran by lunatics

(yes, this has all been said a million times before, just think I should say it again)

 

[ohmyliver]

Freep is (like Kos) not especially indicative of majority opinion. Redstate is a better site for that.

no but it's fairly indicative of the hardcore of the party. That was my point. The hardcore base of the Republican is mostly theocon.

 

[Fedayn]

if he wins the whole world will think of America as a sensible country, rather than one ran by lunatics

Really? Will they? He'll continue the war in Afghanistan! has said he will do everything encessary to defend Israel. Voted to give billions to the banks. Said he'd sanction unilateral US military intervention in Paksistan irrespective of whether Pakistan allowed it.

Not what i'd call sensible, and not being as rabid as W and Co is hardly an example of a lack of 'lunacy'.

 

[dennisr]

I hope the Socialist party candidate gets a respectable vote.

- I think that may be a case of 'hope over experience'. I get the impression that all other candidates would be squeezed between the main two to a greater extent than usual - there seems to be a confused but genuine and understandable mood for 'change' and thats going to be reflected in the vote for Obama.

Much as he will definatly be business as usual in practice its still going to floor the republican right wing and be seen as something significant - a real change in how America views itself and is viewed from the outside.

I saw some fella in north carolina being interviewed last night on newsnight (a skilled worker queing up for food vouchers and facing the prospect of loosing his families home) - he kept on about how, if 'this is what the republicans call socialism - money being spread out more fairly between rich and poor - then he was all for it, especially when they were busy handing his tax dollars to the bankers'. He's a democrat voter. if that reflects a wider mood, it doesn't just show the illusions a lot of americans have in the likes of Obama - it shows the potential for something more

 

[skyscraper101]

The man has immense amounts of charisma and is the best public speaker there has been for a long time]

(yes, this has all been said a million times before, just think I should say it again)

Word.

(again)

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

Those queues to vote aren't half long by UK standards!!

 

[goldenecitrone]

Luckily I've got a few days off work after contracting gastroenteritis whilst on holiday in Egypt so I should be able to stay up late watching Obama whup Republican ass into the wee small hours in between nipping to the bog to try and fill up my terribly tiny sample jar for the doctors. What a night!!!

 

[cliche guevara]

How Mcain Could Win

That makes for quite scary reading.

Really? Will they? He'll continue the war in Afghanistan! has said he will do everything encessary to defend Israel. Voted to give billions to the banks. Said he'd sanction unilateral US military intervention in Paksistan irrespective of whether Pakistan allowed it.

Not what i'd call sensible, and not being as rabid as W and Co is hardly an example of a lack of 'lunacy'.

Well said, I'm glad someone is keeping a clear head on here. While it's obvious to everyone that Obama is miles better than the neocon nutter McCain and his clueless VP, he's hardly ideal, and will not solve America's problems, or the rest of the worlds problems with the country.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I was at the polls when they opened this morning. I wasn't alone. Usually it's no trouble to be the first to vote, but there were 30 people lined up outside this morning. It looks like turnout will be very heavy.

Rather than a mostly-white group as there usually is, the people in line were about half minorities. A lot of people who have never voted before are turning out. I overheard one black lady say "If this doesn't work, I'm not bothering again."

 

[Treacle Toes]

A lot of people who have never voted before are turning out. I overheard one black lady say "If this doesn't work, I'm not bothering again."

That's sad. But very telling.

 

[two sheds]

Then you really having been paying much attention.

I'd with necessarily agree not that

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

That's sad. But very telling.

I never expect to get the outcome I want. I live in a red state and that isn't going to change with this election. I just consider voting a license to bitch.

 

[EddyBlack]

That (Palast report) makes for quite scary reading.

It is disturbing, and clearly they are doing their best to steal millions of votes, it looks like they already have in fact.

I'm still sure Obama will win though because its so obvious he is the popular choice, they'd never get away with that. When they put all these evil schemes in place they where probably anticipating a close contest, in which case it would have worked, as it did in 2000 and 2004.

However, I think its quite likely it won't all be resolved tommorow. I think he may have to challenge some of the results like Al Gore should have done in 2000.

 

[Idris2002]

- I think that may be a case of 'hope over experience'. I get the impression that all other candidates would be squeezed between the main two to a greater extent than usual - there seems to be a confused but genuine and understandable mood for 'change' and thats going to be reflected in the vote for Obama.

Much as he will definatly be business as usual in practice its still going to floor the republican right wing and be seen as something significant - a real change in how America views itself and is viewed from the outside.

I saw some fella in north carolina being interviewed last night on newsnight (a skilled worker queing up for food vouchers and facing the prospect of loosing his families home) - he kept on about how, if 'this is what the republicans call socialism - money being spread out more fairly between rich and poor - then he was all for it, especially when they were busy handing his tax dollars to the bankers'. He's a democrat voter. if that reflects a wider mood, it doesn't just show the illusions a lot of americans have in the likes of Obama - it shows the potential for something more

The single biggest obstacle to socialism in the USA was the fact that the US economy was capable of offering a middle-class lifestyle to large sections (though never all) of the working class. That era seems to be lost and gone forever, and the political fallout will be interesting to watch. . .

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Once again The Onion sums things up:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/struggling_lower_class

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Whilst not downplaying the social significance of a black president do you think America will be a better palce simply as a result of havign a black/mixed race president? How did having the black woman Condoleeza Rice help? Or Judge Clarence Thomas? Ron Brown? ie black men and women in positions of power in America, actually help in any way? Is it, as is my own eprsonal opinionh, whilst not underestimating the 'importance' of a black president in reality slightly nicer 'window dressing' on the same house?

Awaits avalanche of criticism.

It's not about the 'helping'. It's about the 'state of the union'.

But it's also about helping too. The President is held in a special regard in the US, I'd say somewhere between your PM and the Queen [I'm not talking about how the anarchists etc feel about the Queen]. That's why there is such disdain, hatred even, when the man in the office fails, as Bush has done.

To see a black man in the White House will force some whites to reevaluate blacks. For blacks, it will be a role model sans pareil. Also, blacks will know that they alone couldn't elect Obama: it will take a lot of white votes, as well, and that will tell black americans that something is changing in US society.

 

[Fedayn]

It's not about the 'helping'. It's about the 'state of the union'.

But it's also about helping too. The President is held in a special regard in the US, I'd say somewhere between your PM and the Queen [I'm not talking about how the anarchists etc feel about the Queen]. That's why there is such disdain, hatred even, when the man in the office fails, as Bush has done.

To see a black man in the White House will force some whites to reevaluate blacks. For blacks, it will be a role model sans pareil. Also, blacks will know that they alone couldn't elect Obama: it will take a lot of white votes, as well, and that will tell black americans that something is changing in US society.

There's a significance as I said yes. But in reality what will it actually change? How will it affect working class ie blue collar black Americans? In reality i'd hazard very little in terms of jobs, homes, security etc etc.
It's also a way for US liberals to declare that race isn't an issue any more as they will if Obama wins. And then as if by magic it'll be used to attack poor/blue collard blacks with that line well if he can be President you can get a job/better job/bigger house etc etc.... Oooohhh look the American Dream, which is still a nightmare for millions!

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Liberal Conspiracy are live blogging the election from 11pm tonight: http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

There's a significance as I said yes. But in reality what will it actually change? How will it affect working class ie blue collar black Americans? In reality i'd hazard very little in terms of jobs, homes, security etc etc.
It's also a way for US liberals to declare that race isn't an issue any more as they will if Obama wins. And then as if by magic it'll be used to attack poor/blue collard blacks with that line well if he can be President you can get a job/better job/bigger house etc etc.... Oooohhh look the American Dream, which is still a nightmare for millions!

Well for one thing, to the extent that subtle racism had affected earlier administrations and/or their policies, that shouldn't happen with an Obama administration.

And societies change by increments. No one can expect that one election will suddenly mean that all poor americans are raised out of poverty, for instance.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

And societies change by increments. No one can expect that one election will suddenly mean that all poor americans are raised out of poverty, for instance.

Right. No one expects changes overnight.

BTW, African Americans arn't the only ones watching this closely:

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081013/NEWS/810130312/1001

 

[ymu]

Oooohhh look the American Dream, which is still a nightmare for millions!

Aye - my heart sunk when he said he was going to give everyone the chance to achieve the American Dream yesterday.

Having said that, the discourse of US politics is changing rapidly - what he had to say to get elected isn't necessarily the same as he will have to do in the job. Roosevelt wasn't a radical, but the reforms he had to bring in were ('radical' in terms of laissez faire capitalism, obv).

He's not going to turn into a Marxist revolutionary, but there will be the political will to make some very big changes - and it can hardly get more painful for the majority of Americans than it has been under Bush, so he'll get widespread support. The two term limit was brought in because Roosevelt won a third term off the back of the New Deal.

The key factor is Congress. Both the House and Senate look set for Democrat landslides - it's even possible that they'll get 60-40 in the Senate which allows them to override Republican objections on anything regardless. It also means a lot of new, and comparatively 'radical', blood in Congress.

He does have a touch of Blair about him - but a Messianic complex as the US is turning to the left won't have the same effect as Blair's did during the rise of the neoliberal 'consensus'. His power is coming from the poorest in US society, not the richest.

I'll not be hopelessly optimistic, but I'm definitely hoping he gets in.

 

[ymu]

For blacks, it will be a role model sans pareil. Also, blacks will know that they alone couldn't elect Obama: it will take a lot of white votes, as well, and that will tell black americans that something is changing in US society.

I think this is spot on. Same reason as it's important the Lewis Hamilton is black.

Maya Angelou on Channel 4 News last night was saying "we always knew it would come - slavery could not have been endured without the belief that things would get better - but in my lifetime? I never thought I'd see that. <huge huge grin>"

She reminded me of the little black kid on the night before saying "Lewis has proved that someone like me can do something like that - and I'm gonna. <huge huge grin>"

It matters.

 

[ohmyliver]

Once again The Onion sums things up:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/struggling_lower_class

the onion has been consistantly on the money