US attempted to murder Muqtada al-Sadr

[Barking_Mad]

"British Center Finds Country Close to Being a 'Failed State'"

That wouldn't be the ever so impartial Chatham House would it?

Well if you’re going to bring up impartiality then id not mention the ‘Iraq model’ blog - read more here - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/29/164613/278

 

[moono]

Fresh link please, Luther.

 

[Peet]

Peet , for example, told us that it was Arabs who 'encouraged' Palestinians to leave Palestine.

Syria’s Prime Minister after 1948, Khaled al Azm, wrote in his memoirs: ‘Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of the refugees. while it was we who made them leave…We brought disaster upon the refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave…We have rendered them dispossessed…’

The Economist, never a friend of Israel, reported that the most potent factors for the Arabs’ flight were ‘the announcements made over the air by the Higher Arab Executive urging the Arabs to quit…It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades’.

You wouldn't mind substantiating that for a few doubters, would you old matey ?

Do your own research.

 

[Peet]

Why would you insinuate that Chatham House is biased. It is an independent think tank..??

No it bloody isn't. No such thing as an independent think tank.

It's primary bias is that of European integration and in that motive it has every reason to press for failure in Iraq.

 

[Andy the Don]

No it bloody isn't. No such thing as an independent think tank.

It's primary bias is that of European integration and in that motive it has every reason to press for failure in Iraq.

So what is your prime motive & where are you coming from politically..??

What think-tank would you take conculsions from as unbiased.. RUSI..??

But you must admit that Iraq is a total failure.

 

[nino_savatte]

"There is no electricity, no water, no schools and no hospitals. Samarra has turned into a city for the dead," the 65-year-old father of three said."

The point is that they didn't have any electricity from Saddam either - that point is quietly glossed over. The new regime has increased supply by 67 percent and is gradually rolling out a programme to connect every home in the country. The delaying factor is the insurgency.

That's a lie and would suit you to paint a picture of Iraq that is of a backward nation.

Next, you'll telling us that the vast majority of Iraqis are illiterate.

 

[nino_savatte]

Syria’s Prime Minister after 1948, Khaled al Azm, wrote in his memoirs: ‘Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of the refugees. while it was we who made them leave…We brought disaster upon the refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave…We have rendered them dispossessed…’

The Economist, never a friend of Israel, reported that the most potent factors for the Arabs’ flight were ‘the announcements made over the air by the Higher Arab Executive urging the Arabs to quit…It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades’.



Do your own research.

Nice cut and paste, matey. Are you Melanie Phillips?

Because I found this

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/

The text has been cut from that blog. Nice try, Mellie, but you've been rumbled.

 

[sleaterkinney]

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

Foir starters

There's a good article on how inaccurate that site is here: http://www.juancole.com/2004/12/opinion-polls-in-iraq-my-allegation_15.html

You might want to check out the rest of that site as well, to educate yourself.

 

[disownedspirit]

Nice cut and paste, matey. Are you Melanie Phillips?

Because I found this

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/

The text has been cut from that blog. Nice try, Mellie, but you've been rumbled.

rather you than me reading that rubbish nino

maybe peet should do his 'own research' rather than relying on Mad Mel

 

[Peet]

Nice cut and paste, matey. Are you Melanie Phillips?

Because I found this

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/

The text has been cut from that blog. Nice try, Mellie, but you've been rumbled.

So?

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/refugees2.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/refugees.html

Those words are true.

 

[Peet]

What think-tank would you take conculsions from as unbiased.. RUSI..??

There are no unbiased think tanks.

But you must admit that Iraq is a total failure.

Bit eagar to leap to that conclusion aren't we. Only four years into the project.

 

[nino_savatte]

Here's some more from your diary.

So what viewers saw instead was Ashdown’s view of Jerusalem, and duly vicious it was. It was a melange of the usual ghastly libels. Israel was racist; the Palestinians were the innocent victims of Israeli perfidy. Carol Gould has written a passionate critique of the programme here which leaves little more to add.

Really? We appear to have been watching different programmes.

I didn’t see the Liddle programme but I did read his preview article in the Sunday Times. Now I put Liddle, who describes himself as a supporter of Israel, in a different camp from Ashdown. His piece nevertheless gave a venomously false and unfair impression.

Really? That's not my impression but then, you'd probably think of me as 'anti-Semitic'.

I myself have little time for the attitudes of many American-born settlers, some of whom are a disgrace to the Jewish people.

Of course not, but you would have time for those who advocate ethnic cleansing but whose origins aren't American.

And this gets to the real problem with Liddle’s piece, and it is surely at the very the heart of the problem of western hostility to Israel. For Liddle’s piece rested on a particular false assumption which I put down to an ignorance which is widespread. It is an ignorance about the history of Israel, and in particular the land known as the West Bank. People assume Israel itself was an artificial creation resulting from Holocaust guilt, when a load of European Jews were transplanted into a land owned for millennia by Palestinian Arabs. That itself is false. Israel was the nation state of the Jews centuries before the Arabs took it by force, and an unbroken Jewish presence remained in Jerusalem and other cities, some of which, indeed, had a Jewish majority.

That is to say that anyone who doesn't share the Zionist version of history is automatically labelled "ignorant" or worse. That's what is commonly known as "closing down discourse", Melanie, but then, you are no lover of open debate.

For a start, Israel’s occupation of this territory is perfectly legal and legitimate as an act of self defence, after a war of aggression against it in 1967,

No, it isn't. I recal several UN resolutions condemning it. Presumably you will retort with a "That wasn't a Security Council resolution. Like the US, Israel constantly flouts international law and ignores criticism=, while it insists that other countries adhere to international law. Presumably you see no hypocrisy there.

This West Bank land was never owned by the Palestinians. It was part of the post-Ottoman Empire Mandate administered by Britain until Israel’s creation in 1948. Following the war of extermination waged by the Arabs against the fledgling Israel at its creation, Judea and Samaria – as they then were – were illegally occupied by Jordan, and became ‘the West Bank’ as a result.

You have a rather curious view of history. Do you know anything about pre-Mandate Palestine? No, I don't think that you do because it would seriously erode your flimsy argument and put the Brits in a bad light. Presumably you know there was a massive Jewish community in Iraq...and very few of them wanted to go to Israel but ended up emigrating there where they were treated as second class citizens by the Ashkenazim majority.

That's enough for now. Your reply should be very interesting.

 

[Peet]

There's a good article on how inaccurate that site is here: http://www.juancole.com/2004/12/opinion-polls-in-iraq-my-allegation_15.html

You might want to check out the rest of that site as well, to educate yourself.

juan cole. Riiiiight.

 

[nino_savatte]

rather you than me reading that rubbish nino

maybe peet should do his 'own research' rather than relying on Mad Mel

Innit? I'm surprised that I haven't seen any links to Alan Dershowitz yet.

 

[nino_savatte]

juan cole. Riiiiight.

By the way, if you use a quote you're supposed to cite it.

You are Melanie Phillips and I claim my £5.

 

[sleaterkinney]

juan cole. Riiiiight.

From someone who quotes Melanie Phillips

What did he say that was inaccurate then, or can you not deal with opposing viewpoints?

 

[disownedspirit]

From someone who quotes Melanie Phillips

What did he say that was inaccurate then, or can you not deal with opposing viewpoints?

he cant deal with being melanie phillips

 

[Andy the Don]

Bit eagar to leap to that conclusion aren't we. Only four years into the project.

Within four years after 1945 Germany (West) was well on the road to recovery as a democratic country. How long do you need until Iraq is on the road to recovery. (Yes I know there are differences on the two situations).

 

[Peet]

From someone who quotes Melanie Phillips

What did he say that was inaccurate then, or can you not deal with opposing viewpoints?

I can deal with opposing viewpoints. I just can't deal with liars.

 

[nino_savatte]

I can deal with opposing viewpoints. I just can't deal with liars.

I can't deal with people who pretend to be people that they clearly aren't.

I don't care much for those who quote the words of others but don't cite the source.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I can deal with opposing viewpoints. I just can't deal with liars.

What did he lie about in that article?

 

[Peet]

Within four years after 1945 Germany (West) was well on the road to recovery as a democratic country. How long do you need until Iraq is on the road to recovery. (Yes I know there are differences on the two situations).

Getting a democarcy running shouldn't take that long. Crushing attempts to overthrow the elected government (funded by Iran) will take a while.

Iraqis voted for democracy. We have to stay and let them gibe it a chance and fight off foreign rebels who were not elected.

 

[Peet]

What did he lie about in that article?

Didn't bother reading it. the man is a fraud.

 

[moono]

Lol. Khaled al Azm's 'memoirs' were published posthumously in 1973.

Peet;

Do your own research.

A favourite Rachamim glass redoubt. You don't get it , matey. It's you that made an assertion, you that was challenged, and therefore you that must substantiate your post.

 

[nino_savatte]

Getting a democarcy running shouldn't take that long. Crushing attempts to overthrow the elected government (funded by Iran) will take a while.

Iraqis voted for democracy. We have to stay and let them gibe it a chance and fight off foreign rebels who were not elected.

The only thing is, the word democracy is little more than that: a word.

The mandate for the Iraqi government was not a proper mandate and can only be regarded, at best, as a meaningless sign; a rubber stamp for US corporate power in Mesopotamia.

 

[nino_savatte]

Why are you avoiding me, Peet?

 

[sleaterkinney]

Didn't bother reading it. the man is a fraud.

It says it all that you didn't read it, Post up the evidence then

 

[sleaterkinney]

Getting a democarcy running shouldn't take that long. Crushing attempts to overthrow the elected government (funded by Iran) will take a while.

Iraqis voted for democracy. We have to stay and let them gibe it a chance and fight off foreign rebels who were not elected.

This is laughable, even Rumsfeld dropped the foreign fighters line.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Poor old Peet, not an original thought in his head. Just regurgitated phrases and soundbites from the Bush cabal along with the plagerised ramblings of Melanie Phillips.

Poor. V. Poor.

 

[Peet]

Quite difficult to go into any of this in depth while trying to do my day job so I'll say this...

In the referendum on the constitution, there was a turnout in favour of it that would make most western democracies green with envy.

The constitution allows for self realisation and self governance of the very differing provences while still having access to oil revenues.

Were this to work it wold be a serious economic and political threat to the more intolerant regimes in the region. That is why they have done everything in their power to prevent it from happening.

It is also the last thing Islamists want for Iraq. That is why they have flocked to the region to take pot shots and the great satan.

I do not thik the majority of Iraqis want Iraq to become an intolerant Islamic theocracy. If that were so they would have rejected the constitution.

Best summed up here...

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010107