Urgent Advice needed: Possible eviction from non legitimate dwelling

Discussion in 'benefits and housing' started by DaRealSpoon, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    You don't need a paper contract for one to exist, it can be formed by action. If you've been paying the rent on a monthly basis for some time (by bank transfer? i.e. can you prove it?) then that's probably enough to form a tenancy contract.

    As everyone else has said, you should be given two months notice, and depending on when this tenancy began, there is a process to follow (post-2015 tenancies, a specific form you must be served with), and then of course failure to leave means the landlord has to go to court to get you evicted which takes ages, months at the very least.

    The trouble with all this is it relies on them actually following due process.
  2. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    That's brilliant advice/info, thanks. How would all that work if the 'dwelling' itself wasn't legitimate... Ie he has never obtained permission to have a static on his land which he permanently rents out?

    I think if we dug our heels in, he wouldn't have the balls to really do too much.. Getting courts/legals involved would pose him too much of a risk, no?
  3. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    All of this other stuff about legitimacy of the dwelling etc is distinctly secondary, a complicated distraction, and whilst it might be true, in the wrong light could be viewed by a third party as you attempting blackmail or similar. Don't get bogged down in it unless you are very confident that you can somehow leverage it to your benefit.

    Your best protection by far is from simple statutory tenancy protections, and if it comes to it, the slow speed the courts operate at. You will eventually be evicted, but you can probably slow it down significantly, which buys you other options.
  4. But he probably doesn’t expect that they’ll call his bluff.
  5. Ralph Llama


    I rekon dont rock the boat with the land lord, just except the situation or leave it . The council round there sound like they might be tollerent of a traveller site :)
  6. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    That's easily the worst advice so far in this thread.
    Whagwan, ohmyliver, Libertad and 7 others like this.
  7. ice-is-forming

    ice-is-forming Well-Known Member

    no advice but empathy from me, my landlord was such a cunt last year. i went from sane to def con 1 in 60 seconds. if thoughts alone could kill he would be dead. what i took from this was never get attatched to something thats not mine...
    likesfish likes this.
  8. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    Getting hold of shelter is nigh on impossible... :(
  9. purenarcotic

    purenarcotic Conveniently Pocket Sized

    How long have you been trying for? You should eventually get through - I think they now do an online chat thing too.
  10. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    All day... :(
    Plumdaff likes this.
  11. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    So shelter seem to have vanished for the day... I've rang them about 50 times and never got through, also their have been no online advisors whenever I've checked...

    Unsurprisingly, there is no negotiation to be had.. I've done my absolute diplomatic and negotiating best but he is having none of it and is turning a bit nasty...

    This year can go fuck itself already :mad:
  12. Plumdaff

    Plumdaff joy in people

    Are you in a union. I got tenancy advice via my union on a couple of occasions.
  13. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    No, self employed, unfortunately
  14. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad heckling from the back!

    I might suggest the local CAB or "professional" association (in lieu of trade union).
    Throwing out some random ideas now ...
    Also, some bank accounts and insurance policies have "legal advice" as part of their benefits.
    Some solicitors will do half hour session free (ie pro-bono).
    Perhaps, given the age of your child, going and sitting on the desk at your local council (either the elected members or employed officials), or MP (also prospective candidates), or local newspaper.
    Are any of the people that you have worked for in the last few months able to help put pressure on him ?
    Plumdaff and DaRealSpoon like this.
  15. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    I've thought about going to the papers... Story of rich landlord kicking out young family to cash in on the tourists... Would be like cream to the cat for the local cornish rags.

    Just not sure if we want that publicity on ourselves like, would make it hard finding somewhere else to take us.

    Going to the council on Monday morning and will keep persevering with shelter etc.

    Im just worried how it's going to rip our little pack apart... I doubt the council will find us a home that will take our dog, cat and 2 bee hives too...
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  16. Ralph Llama


  17. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    IMO, stop with the leverage and vengeance shite. It doesn't come across well, even if it's understandable, but critically it won't get/keep a roof over your head one iota. I'm sorry to hear about Shelter. Keep trying. That and what mauvais said.
    cupid_stunt likes this.
  18. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    I've thought about Alot of things, some of them pretty dark... doesn't mean I'm actually going to do it. Sometimes just helps to think all of it through.

    I'm not a vengeful person, but I'm also quite prepared to stand up for whats right and fair. I totally agree though, the best way for us to do that is through the proper channels.
    cupid_stunt and muscovyduck like this.
  19. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    Yay... On the phone to Shelter :cool:
  20. High Voltage

    High Voltage In the top 97% of Urban's most interesting posters

    Hope you get some constructive advice and that your 2018 starts to improve . . . soon :thumbs:
  21. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    OK so basically it will come to whether we are classed as having an assured short hold tenancy.

    The bloke from shelter seemed to think it would be given the permanence of it and its full connection to all services etc. He's assigned a case worker from civil legal advice to call us on monday and go through properly.. If we get the tenancy then it's good for us, it means he would have to go through the courts to get notice to evict us etc.

    Less likely, but possible is that we don't get assured tenancy... Which basically means he can do what he likes by the sound of it... Change locks and refuse to let us on the property.

    Though it was a positive call... I'm terrified that the latter might happen.
    aqua, wayward bob, Plumdaff and 8 others like this.
  22. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    I've been following thread, but not commented, as I have no advice to offer, but I am hoping you get the best possible outcome from this shit situation, DaRealSpoon.
  23. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    Thank you :oops:
  24. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    I don't think you will have any issues with the AST bit. If it's not an AST (or the rolling version thereof, a Statutory Periodic Tenancy), what is it? A lodging, a holiday let? A key question is whether the landlord lives on the premises or can freely enter - i.e. whether you have control over the dwelling. If not, it might be a lodger arrangement. It sounds like you do have sufficient control.

    Then there's a question of whether a static caravan is a dwelling house, and the static nature and connection of services seems to solve that for you.

    So all you need to be able to do is demonstrate that you have an ongoing rent relationship.

    The primary risk is not that you don't get AST, but that your landlord pays no heed to his legal duty, changing the locks etc in spite of it being an AST. Then you will have legal redress but a more immediate practical problem, something of a pyrrhic victory at least in the short term. You should think about how likely that is and whether there's anything you can do to mitigate it.

    I'm not a legal or housing professional, by the way, I've just been served notice on a lot of rented houses by now, so unfortunately have accrued some knowledge.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
    Miss-Shelf and muscovyduck like this.
  25. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Oh yeah and one more thing: with modern tenancies (only just noticed yours is about a year old) there's a whole bunch of stuff that landlords have to do before they can serve notice legitimately (the s.21 notice). I don't just mean filling in the form properly, I mean energy performance certificates for the dwelling, gas safety certificates, etc etc

    Let them discover this for themselves and it could take forever for them to get their shit together enough to serve a valid s.21.
    likesfish and Plumdaff like this.
  26. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    Yes, there is only 1 key to the property and we have it so we definitely have control. It is entirely separate to anything else on the holding so I think it's unlikely we wouldn't get AST.

    We have records of standing order payments labelled 'rent' going into his account every month so no problems there.

    With us having the only key, he would have to physically break in to change the locks... I don't think he's capable or willing to do that. He's far more petty... For example, he has locked the door to the main houses utility room so we can't do the babies laundry (that was the only shared facility), which is nice. Just means it's back to laundrette for the time being.

    I know for certain he has none of those certificates, but remember he doesn't have planning permission for the caravan anyway, so would that matter?

    Yep, it's been under a year so would fall into modern regulations.

    Thank you mauvais, really
    mauvais likes this.
  27. He might become more reasonable when officialdom start sniffing about if he isn’t running a legit operation.
  28. DaRealSpoon

    DaRealSpoon Do not try and bend the spoon...

    Having known him for the last year, I think this is exactly what will happen.
  29. 1927

    1927 Funnier than he thinks he is.

    Maybe nit, but a bit of publicity might bring someone out of the woodwork who will offer you somewhere else to live. Its like the xmas story about the family that have their xmas pressies nicked, they always end up with a better xmas than they would have had because some kind souls offer them xmas dinner at a posh hotel and a load of expensive pressies they couldn't otherwise have afforded.
  30. Miss-Shelf

    Miss-Shelf I've looked at life from both sides now

    Hope you get some good news this week.

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