Urban Green Fair

[co-op]

I thought it was a really sweet event.

Not much good if you wanted to get shit-faced, seeing as how there wasn't a licence but I thought that was quite a nice change for a festivaly-public event thing these days.

There're quite a few posters on this thread who seem a bit desperate to be oh-so-cool and dismissive about it. Not sure why, a bit teenage-cycnic isn't it?

 

[snowy_again]

I was robbed of a prize in the bake off, with my cake not even being placed. So I'm going to start some conspiracy loon type posts about judges. Something along the lines of reptilian takeovers of earth and pastry chefs.

 

[Jonti]

There was entertainment, tea and cakes, with a fairground right by for those needing adrenaline packed fun 'n' thrills. We had a lovely afternoon meeting old friends and chatting. And the threatened summer storm held off.

Kudos to the organisers.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

yes - i learnt how to make rowan berry jelly ate nice (overpriced?) bakery goods , had a go on loads of different bikes,
wanted to hear paul mobbs speak - he wasn#t there when he was due - did he turn up or did someone pretend to be him?

 

[Blagsta]

There're quite a few posters on this thread who seem a bit desperate to be oh-so-cool and dismissive about it. Not sure why, a bit teenage-cycnic isn't it?

That's right, very teenage me.

 

[co-op]

That's right, very teenage me.

Teenage-cynic was the damning allegation here.

 

[Blagsta]

I just couldn't escape the feeling that the organisers are ghettoising themselves. Stalls selling hippy tat, stuff about the climate camp, conspiracy theory DVDs and charging £3 for it is not the best way to get your message across IMO.

 

[Missez]

I just couldn't escape the feeling that the organisers are ghettoising themselves. Stalls selling hippy tat, stuff about the climate camp, conspiracy theory DVDs and charging £3 for it is not the best way to get your message across IMO.

They charged you to get in? That's odd.

 

[snowy_again]

There were people going round with a bucket asking for contributions. I muttered summat, and went back to attempting to influence the cake judges by looking at them intensely. Still had fun on the silly bikes and caught up with a few people. Oh and ate trifle without booze in it, which was wrong. It was missing something in the middle of that field though, it looked like they'd forgotten something.

 

[Blagsta]

They charged you to get in? That's odd.

We didn't pay, but they were trying to guilt trip people into paying £3 to get into the park.

 

[Missez]

We didn't pay, but they were trying to guilt trip people into paying £3 to get into the park.

No one even bothered to pester me for money.

 

[hipipol]

I would have gone but heard that Mystic Meg had cancelled

Re that Guru Maharahji shit, he got stopped at JFK and his bags were found to conatin nowt but cash. He said it was a miracle cos all hed packed were undies and a couple of tee's - their ye go, irrefutable truth that he is never wrong

All those Godmen are charlatens. Anyone into that crap is emotionally deficient. Was there was less of that tosh this year?

 

[shaneC]

Yes we were asking for £3 donation at the gate and thanks to the people who put in around £1200. This is a free festival so depends on donations and stall fees - pretty much anyone can take out a stall, which the UGF depends on to meet the budget. This year we decided to avoid the Licencing Act 2004 and all the baggage and cost that comes with it, it means we put on the Fair for around £15K, we really needed another £5k at least for more content. Having no music changes the atmosphere, hopefully more conducive to listening to speakers, meeting people. I hope some of the people complaining about the crystal / Gurus checked some of the talks. Nafeez Mossadeq Ahmed on the War on Terror was fascinating, Jeremy Legget on the New Green Deal, Transition Town Brixton, some top films etc etc we put on 18 different speakers and thanks to Vic Lambrusco for getting together 2 poetry sessions, so if you can't find anything of interest maybe you were not interested on the day. Apologies for the mushroom / chainsaw man noise, he appeared and placed himself. We put on the Urban Green Fair not to get drunk in the park but to provide info on claimte change - 100 months to make 70% cuts of go over the 2oC tipping point and a grim legacy for the next generation and Peak Oil, ever increasing energy prices and a government who wants to build nuclear and coal power stations. Even the Maharahji 's not that stupid.

 

[editor]

Shame I was away for this.

 

[co-op]

I just couldn't escape the feeling that the organisers are ghettoising themselves. Stalls selling hippy tat, stuff about the climate camp, conspiracy theory DVDs and charging £3 for it is not the best way to get your message across IMO.

Well it's a point of view - but on another thread running right now you have posted (approvingly) about "elimination communication". Now I'd agree with you that EC is at least an interesting theory and any new parent ought to hear about it (and that doesn't mean that I think it has to be true or anyone *has* to do it).

But you must know (and I have definitely heard/seen) plenty of people roll their eyes or casually sneer at this kind of practise.

Climate Camp certainly doesn't deserve casual ridicule unless you want to prove you are part of some tedious suburban "consensus", hippy tat is no worse than all the High St tat (probably better in that it moves through a slightly more democratic supply chains and yields income to a slightly wider range of people than the average High St £), and the films about international banking are at least worth a listen. My first degree was one third Economics, but I certainly don't think I could sneer at the 'Money As Debt' film, it had a coherent thesis and was factually correct. I don't totally buy it, I don't buy quite large amounts of economic theory.

The UGF is surely something to support? Even including bits and bobs you don't totally go along with?

 

[Blagsta]

Eh? Are you drunk?

What exactly is the connection between how we raise our child and the Lambeth Green Fair? Where did I say anything about anyone having to do it?

weird!


You appear to have entirely missed my point and seem to have taken my criticism personally. Even weirder! The point I was making was that if you want to bring green issues into a wider agenda, then ghettoising yourself as a bunch of hippies and giving space to fringe economic theories that are associated with anti-semitic conspiracy theories is not the way to do it!

 

[co-op]

Eh? Are you drunk?

What exactly is the connection between how we raise our child and the Lambeth Green Fair? Where did I say anything about anyone having to do it?

weird!


You appear to have entirely missed my point and seem to have taken my criticism personally. Even weirder! The point I was making was that if you want to bring green issues into a wider agenda, then ghettoising yourself as a bunch of hippies and giving space to fringe economic theories that are associated with anti-semitic conspiracy theories is not the way to do it!

Um. I think you might be the one taking this personally.

I was making a comparison between - eg - your advocacy of EC (which many people regard as fruit-loop territory) and people like you going on about a "bunch of hippies". In fact EC is exactly what I'd expect many people would call dippy-hippy.

It's not a big deal (nor since you seem to have got a bit heated on this) is it a criticism of EC or those who use it.

It's wondering how you square your attitude with things YOU believe in which are clearly well outside mainstream/conventional thinking with your sneering at things you don't believe in for the same thing (although you seem a bit hazy on details of whats wrong with some of the alternative gubbins at the UGF).

I've bought crystals in my time, not because I think they are going to transmit magick energies but just because I think they look nice.

I find it a contradiction but it's not a massive one nor a big deal. I've never really found the idea of slagging anything (even things that are obviously a bit dippy imo) just because they're unconventional.

How this all impacts on the UGF's ability to convert the energy-hungry Mr & Mrs Normals of Lambeth is another matter, but if they are going to run for cover at anything that is slightly out of the mainstream, they are going to be in fully operational denial at this stage, since that's were the mainstream is right now.

 

[Blagsta]

You're drawing some mighty strange comparisons between things that aren't related. Very odd.

 

[co-op]

You're drawing some mighty strange comparisons between things that aren't related. Very odd.

It wasn't meant to be that big a deal.

The comparison was between (your) sneering at "a bunch of hippies etc" and your advocacy of something that many (most?) mainstream, 'normal', whatever people - would also sneer at.

If you hold marginal beliefs yourself I think it behooves a little respect for others who do the same - or when that's impossible by virtue of the wackiness of the beliefs - at least to slag them off for better reasons than they are a "bunch of hippies" - since by some definitions you're just a "typical hippy" for taking EC seriously.

 

[Blagsta]

Are you drunk or something?

The difference between me posting a comment on a thread and my criticism of the Green Fair is that I'm not trying to promote anything with my comment on a bulletin board. I'd have thought that was obvious! For you to draw a comparison is pretty odd to say the least!

 

[mango5]

I had a nice time bimbling around in the light rain. I had a good chat with one of the money taking people too, though I wasn't asked to pay. (It was 11.15 and only the hardy types were out at that point).

 

[han]

Are you drunk or something?

 

[co-op]

Are you drunk or something?

The difference between me posting a comment on a thread and my criticism of the Green Fair is that I'm not trying to promote anything with my comment on a bulletin board. I'd have thought that was obvious! For you to draw a comparison is pretty odd to say the least!

I'm obviously not getting my point over...

'twas no biggie though

 

[Blagsta]

I'm obviously not getting my point over...

'twas no biggie though

No, you're not, you're being weird.

 

[co-op]

No, you're not, you're being weird.

To be honest, it's a pretty simple point, you're being so defensive you seem to be a little "blocked".

Let's give it one more go...

1. You're sneering at the UGF for being (to paraphrase) hippy nonsense.

2. Elsewhere you're praising EC.

3. I claim that many, maybe most people, (but obviously not you) would call EC hippy nonsense.

4. I query why you think the "hippy nonsense" critique is persuasive in the one arena but not in the other.

5. You accuse me of being drunk and weird.

 

[Blagsta]

You appear to have got completely the wrong end of the stick.

never mind eh?

 

[co-op]

You appear to have got completely the wrong end of the stick.

never mind eh?

Guess I'm just weird.



So what was so crazy about the UGF inviting people from Climate Camp to speak?

 

[Blagsta]

Are you being deliberatly obtuse?

I'll spell it out for you one more time - my criticism of the Urban Green Fair is that it appeared to be ghettoising itself, preaching to the converted. If your aim is to get your message across about the environment to people (which I believe is an important message), the catering for a small minority of hippies (note, I am not sneering, I'm a bit of a hippy myself, being a veteran of several road protests, having been active on the free party scene and having quite a few Hawkwind and Orzric Tentacles records) is not the way to do it. Things like the climate camp, while interesting, are not relevant to most people's lives. The splitting of politics into symbolic actions and professional activists is not healthy IMO. Politics needs to be in our workplaces and communities, not at symbolic media friendly actions a few times a year. Most people are concerned about their rent/mortgage, their bills, their wages, schools, hospitals etc. Green issues need to be linked to those things, not some student hippy camp.

Now quite why my mentioning of EC in a totally unrelated thread in which I'm not promoting anything to anyone is relevent, I don't know.

 

[co-op]

Are you being deliberatly obtuse?

I'll spell it out for you one more time - my criticism of the Urban Green Fair is that it appeared to be ghettoising itself, preaching to the converted. If your aim is to get your message across about the environment to people (which I believe is an important message), the catering for a small minority of hippies (note, I am not sneering, I'm a bit of a hippy myself, being a veteran of several road protests, having been active on the free party scene and having quite a few Hawkwind and Orzric Tentacles records) is not the way to do it. Things like the climate camp, while interesting, are not relevant to most people's lives. The splitting of politics into symbolic actions and professional activists is not healthy IMO. Politics needs to be in our workplaces and communities, not at symbolic media friendly actions a few times a year. Most people are concerned about their rent/mortgage, their bills, their wages, schools, hospitals etc. Green issues need to be linked to those things, not some student hippy camp.

Now quite why my mentioning of EC in a totally unrelated thread in which I'm not promoting anything to anyone is relevent, I don't know.

TBH I'm getting obtuse from you. Communication issues I guess.

What you say here ^ is at least a pov with some substance (although it doesn't explan why in your original dig at the UGF you included in your list of reasons the fact that it had "a car hire" stand - I think it was a car club? - ie exactly the sort of middle-of-the-road 'normal' thing that would maybe appeal to the unconverted).

You also sneered at the presence of Lambeth Council and TfL...how are they going tofrighten away the mainstream?

You talk about the split between the fulltime acivist world and normal life; well yes, that's a problem, one way of bridging it is for full time activists from - eg - Climate Camp - to turn up at little events like the UGF in peoples' local park and talk about what they're doing.

I'm not arguing that this is any great big deal, I just didn't understand your original swipes at the UGF, or why someone who's broadly in favour of many or most of its broad aims would go on line to join in slagging it off. Seems like there might be better targets?

And sneering at the dippy-hippyness of it seems a bit odd from you when you seem sort-of-proud of aspects of your own life which would be seen by most mainstream people as dippy-hippy. (eg EC in case you're wondering).

It came over more like you were in a grumpy mood and wanted to knock the whole thing from the off.

 

[Blagsta]

At least you're (partly!) engaging with what I've written now, rather than your own stuff (apart from the thing about sneering - you seem to have an obsession with the word!).