Urban Green Fair (free), June 17-18, Brockwell Park, CANCELLED????

[Dan U]

haha manik did the sound for that, maybe thats why they don't want anything else in brockwell park

there in spain now anyway

eta - just read rest of the thread. this is complete and utter bollocks by lambeth. as i suspected this appears to be a deliberate ploy to scare off the community events through prohibitive costs and, i bet, replace them with events that cost £20 a day to see average bands in an ill attended environment.

wankers.

 

[tarannau]

Not this fencing lark again. Fuckers.




As Gaijin has touched on, exactly the same happened to Fair4Life last year. Depite being a free festival trying to raise money for charity, the council insisted on a fence being added at a late stage and would not budge - afaik that was the first free event forced into having a fence.

The downsides were fairly obvious - the fence caused more crowd unrest than had it not been there, forcing people to detour around the site in search of an exit at the end and causing many arguments. Add to that I suspect it put a fair few people off entering in the first place, not to mention pissing off (non-festival) visitors to the park who couldn't take their normal way around the park. I can't think of one useful purpose it served - i was stewarding all day and heard nothing but complaints from all around.

The whole fence saga also pushed Fair4Life into the red. Rather than making a small contribution to charity, the cost of the fence ended up as a hefty loss to both promoters, who are just getting themselves up to financial respectability again. It's the main reason why they've had to regroup and put off the idea of getting Fair4Life off the ground until 2008 again.

And that was with them trying to save money on the fence by pretty much erecting the thing up themselves. For days afterwards a few poor tired fuckers were still dismantling and humping the thing down, just to add injury to financial loss.

The requirement for a fence was unnecessary, hugely costly and entirely counterproductive to a good free event - I'm really disappointed they're insisting on it again. I understand what FreeSpirit's saying about a good relationship with the council, which I believe was established with Fair4Life, but it doesn't bode well that they're still so inflexible on the fence - it's the one silly mandatory that I can't believe is in place, particularly after the council were onsite at Fair4Life and saw what an unnecessary, unloved pain in the arse the fence was.

 

[tarannau]

there in spain now anyway

eta - just read rest of the thread. this is complete and utter bollocks by lambeth. as i suspected this appears to be a deliberate ploy to scare off the community events through prohibitive costs and, i bet, replace them with events that cost £20 a day to see average bands in an ill attended environment.

wankers.

That's a good point. With the fence requirement, it's unlikely to be economic to put on smaller community festivals.

The high set up and dismantling costs mean that it's prohibitively expensive to have a small event on one day. Looking at the potential costs for a new festival this year (not going ahead) it quickly became apparent that the only way we could afford to go ahead was to expand the site massively, count on a comparatively massive donation (at least £2 a person)/take on unwanted sponsorship, and/or run the thing for two days to try and offset the high set-up costs.

It's hardly ideal is it....

 

[William of Walworth]

Tarranau, did you investigate other locations in other, possibly less restrictive, boroughs??

 

[tarannau]

Tarranau, did you investigate other locations in other, possibly less restrictive, boroughs??

Not this time to be honest. Funds were always going to be tight and the prospect of having to jump through the hoops and establish a relationship with another council filled them with more dread than they could deal with atm.

 

[wiskey]

well this is all a bit crap isnt it.

i've had enough of brixton.

 

[William of Walworth]

Not this time to be honest. Funds were always going to be tight and the prospect of having to jump through the hoops and establish a relationship with another council filled them with more dread than they could deal with atm.

Thanks for that. It's a shame, and I hope by 2008 you can get your event to happen with somewhat fewer restrictions (see freespirit's post perhaps).

As you can easily guess though, my question wasn't solely aimed at you and Fair4Life ...

 

[Crispy]

well this is all a bit crap isnt it.

i've had enough of brixton.

Let's seccede

 

[wiskey]

 

[Dan U]

That's a good point. With the fence requirement, it's unlikely to be economic to put on smaller community festivals.

The high set up and dismantling costs mean that it's prohibitively expensive to have a small event on one day. Looking at the potential costs for a new festival this year (not going ahead) it quickly became apparent that the only way we could afford to go ahead was to expand the site massively, count on a comparatively massive donation (at least £2 a person)/take on unwanted sponsorship, and/or run the thing for two days to try and offset the high set-up costs.

It's hardly ideal is it....

some friends are involved with the Ambient Picnic in Guildford and they had similar problems last year with Guildford Council demanding things - selling tickets in advance ONLY being one problem they encountered.

it used to be a free/donations event but they demanded fences and lots of security as well. there taking 2006 off afaik - which is a shame as its a great nfp community event - and trying to aim for 2007.

it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy - the higher demands the council make for alleged 'H&S reasons' then the measure you outline need to be considered and put in to place.

morphs a not for profit community event into something more commercial - often thereby alienating a lot of the people involved and who attend.

i dont want to sit on a Bacardi Bus

 

[Radar]

Let's seccede

Again ?

 

[William of Walworth]

some friends are involved with the Ambient Picnic in Guildford and they had similar problems last year with Guildford Council demanding things - selling tickets in advance ONLY being one problem they encountered.

it used to be a free/donations event but they demanded fences and lots of security as well. there taking 2006 off afaik - which is a shame as its a great nfp community event - and trying to aim for 2007.

it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy - the higher demands the council make for alleged 'H&S reasons' then the measure you outline need to be considered and put in to place.

morphs a not for profit community event into something more commercial - often thereby alienating a lot of the people involved and who attend.

i dont want to sit on a Bacardi Bus

Follow Strawberry Fair's example and find some COMMON LAND!!??

 

[nick]

so is rush common common land? (not exactly ideally shaped I'll admit)

 

[Dan U]

Follow Strawberry Fair's example and find some COMMON LAND!!??

in the centre of guildford? dont think there is any sadly..

half the point is the local community can all walk to it!

 

[wiskey]

so is rush common common land? (not exactly ideally shaped I'll admit)

lol it can be a really long thin festival

 

[TeeJay]

...when the new act is applied to council owned land a representative of the council needs to be licensee for the event, rather than the person actually running the festival being licensee.

Shane is/was the licencee.

 

[TeeJay]

Shane, TeeJay : remember though that I am still available for any assistance date willing

You can assist by making sure that any information being posted or published is correct and has the thumbs up to go public, rather than rumours, gossip, wild speculation or information that has been passed on in confidence and that isn't meant to be repeated to everyone in Brixton or posted on public forums.

The best way of doing this is simply to PM, email or phone the people running the event *first* rather than posting stuff up first of all and making people run around having to deny and/or correct all the rumours.

This is exactly why some people have been withholding more details - because via chinese whispers, exaggeration, gossip and speculation the whole thing becomes a total mess which makes sorting out certain stuff even harder than it is in the first place.

Thank you for helping - having your festival listings thread here means that there is a central place and someone who is responsible and actually knows about the people and events involved.

Regarding picking dates: of course noone is going to schedule a Green fair during Glastonbury and Big Green for example, nor are they going to clash with Kingston Green fair or Camden Green Fair weekends, the final choice usually comes down to consulting with the crew involved (ie when they are free as most of the do other events each summer) and went the venue is free. In an ideal world it would be possible for consult the festivals calendar and pick a completely free weekend, but in reality you have to start with your own production crew (who - as I have said - have other jobs and events to put on). I know you keep hoping for a calendar that fits in perfectly with what you would want and all I can suggest is that you send Shane an email setting out all the festivals each year which you don't want his events to clash with: it might remind him of some dates that he was unaware of ... best to do this as early as possible - ideally the year before even (eg suggest dates now to shane for summer 2007).

 

[g force]

Contact Cllr Clare Whelan - she's in charge of parks I believe and responded to my last email within 5 minutes! I'll ask the other Cllr Whelan about it when he's back in work tomorrow.

 

[William of Walworth]

in the centre of guildford? dont think there is any sadly..

half the point is the local community can all walk to it!

True true, but I was posting a bit more generally anyway.

It was a rushed post earlier, but even with Guildford, there must surely be some sort of alternative site worth investigating, not necessarily within Guildford GB area, but .... ??

 

[William of Walworth]

You can assist by making sure that any information being posted or published is correct and has the thumbs up to go public, rather than rumours, gossip, wild speculation or information that has been passed on in confidence and that isn't meant to be repeated to everyone in Brixton or posted on public forums.

The best way of doing this is simply to PM, email or phone the people running the event *first* rather than posting stuff up first of all and making people run around having to deny and/or correct all the rumours.

This is exactly why some people have been withholding more details - because via chinese whispers, exaggeration, gossip and speculation the whole thing becomes a total mess which makes sorting out certain stuff even harder than it is in the first place.

Thank you for helping - having your festival listings thread here means that there is a central place and someone who is responsible and actually knows about the people and events involved.

Regarding picking dates: of course noone is going to schedule a Green fair during Glastonbury and Big Green for example, nor are they going to clash with Kingston Green fair or Camden Green Fair weekends, the final choice usually comes down to consulting with the crew involved (ie when they are free as most of the do other events each summer) and went the venue is free. In an ideal world it would be possible for consult the festivals calendar and pick a completely free weekend, but in reality you have to start with your own production crew (who - as I have said - have other jobs and events to put on). I know you keep hoping for a calendar that fits in perfectly with what you would want and all I can suggest is that you send Shane an email setting out all the festivals each year which you don't want his events to clash with: it might remind him of some dates that he was unaware of ... best to do this as early as possible - ideally the year before even (eg suggest dates now to shane for summer 2007).

Cheers for this -- I sense some gentle and probably deserved rebuke going on

Perhaps I did post this thread a little too early, but I was responding to DJ Wrongspeed's post that was hidden last night inside a general 'Lambeth is shit' (ie common or garden!! ) thread, and which people wouldn't necessarily have seen. I wouldn't necessarily have seen it til quite a bit later. And DJW is generally a responsible/respected poster -- after his post, which shocked me!!!! I thought it was important to ask for clarification (the stated purpose of this thread!).

As you know, I did PM you ...

Also ...

Please say it's not so. A lot more information needed ASAP!!!

 

[Dan U]

True true, but I was posting a bit more generally anyway.

It was a rushed post earlier, but even with Guildford, there must surely be some sort of alternative site worth investigating, not necessarily within Guildford GB area, but .... ??

i hope so as its a great day out by the river - the other main site in guildford is the main festival site sandwiched between two roads - no where near as attractive a venue!

certainly one for your calendar in 2007

 

[free spirit]

Shane is/was the licencee.

ah ok, I know I don't know the local scenario, just passing comment about the fact that there are a lot of difficulties being caused nationally through councils being left to interpret the new laws themselves with fuck all guidance.

As far as we've been told the new licencing laws are different for publicly owned land with the local council's having to actually become the licensees for the land then kind of subcontract this licence back out to the event organiser. According to the licencing officer up here who we've worked with for years and trust pretty well, this is causing major problems in a lot of areas because the whole process is unclear & messy, council officers are reluctant to take on this additional responsibility and if they do, are placing silly restriction on any events as it's their neck on the line much more than in the past.

It may be that lambeth is going down a completely different route to newcastle, as I say the guidance has apparently been shit so the final approach apprently is varying completely across the country, but I thought it might be useful for you to know the background to this nationally as I don't know how well you get on with your local licensing officers etc. and whether they've explained to you the background to this.

if I'm teachin granny to suck eggs on this appologies, just thought it might be useful info for you. Offer's there if you need it.

peace

 

[pinkmonkey]

Probably a bit off topic but I had wondered why the travelling fair that comes to our local park twice a year suddenly had a fence around it this time. Now all makes sense. Bit pointless though.

 

[TeeJay]

A lot more information needed ASAP!!!

Sometimes less is more iyswim. Best to contact Shane. You've got his number.

 

[Onket]

there in spain now anyway

Not all of them.

 

[William of Walworth]

Sometimes less is more iyswim. Best to contact Shane. You've got his number.

Point taken. May see him tomorrow perhaps.

 

[Streathamite]

Contact Cllr Clare Whelan - she's in charge of parks I believe and responded to my last email within 5 minutes! I'll ask the other Cllr Whelan about it when he's back in work tomorrow.

La whelan was passionatelyu anti-jayday, and I'll bet she was equally anti-this.
Tory pondlife

 

[Amanita Virosa]

According to the licencing officer up here who we've worked with for years and trust pretty well, this is causing major problems in a lot of areas because the whole process is unclear & messy, council officers are reluctant to take on this additional responsibility and if they do, are placing silly restriction on any events as it's their neck on the line much more than in the past.

There seems to be problems with a lot of events since the new licensing regime came in and it does not seem to matter where in the country they are.
Every event I normally go to has this year gone pre-book ticket only with a numbers restriction:- "due to licencing requirement" or a very similar phrase.

 

[shaneC]

Urban Green Fair Public Notice

The SOUTH LONDON URBAN GREEN FAIR
Preparing for a post peak oil planet.
www.urbangreenfair.org.uk
public notice
embargoed 7pm Tuesday 25th April 2006

SOUTH LONDON URBAN GREEN FAIR FENCED OFF BY LAMBETH COUNCIL

We regret to announce that the South London Urban Green Fair, which was due to take place the weekend of 17th and 18th June in Brockwell Park, Lambeth has been cancelled.

This denies Lambeth and South London residents a public and ticket-free ‘sustainable living’ event promoting green lifestyles in the coming age of ‘peak oil’ - diminishing yet more expensive supplies of fossil fuel.

The reason the organisers have taken this decision is that we are unable to comply with Lambeth Council’s interpretation of the new licencing laws and it’s decision to demand fencing around any free event of 2000 people or more in Lambeth.

The Parks Department of Lambeth Council has demanded the erection of a 1.2 kilometer, 8ft ‘Heras’ fence around the Urban Green Fair in the already fenced Brockwell Park. The organisers are against the ethos of fences at free events, which look ugly, serve little purpose and put people off by creating an impression of exclusion.

The Lambeth Parks department are already charging the organisers £9,800 for use of the Brockwell Park to put on the first South London Urban Green Fair. The fence and extra gate staffing would add around £5,800 to the budget.

Shane Collins, event licencee said ‘This interpretation of the new licencing laws by Lambeth Council has just made it a lot harder to put on free community events. This discriminates against not-for-profit community events in favour of commercial fenced, ticketed and exclusive events. We want the policy changed. ‘

The fence issue has already caused the ‘Cuban Carnival’ to move out of Lambeth. Last year ‘Fair for Life’, a free event aiming to raise money for cancer relief ended up losing money due to the costs of a kilometer-long fence. They have not re-applied for an event this year. ‘Portugal Day’ in Kennington Park does not want the cost or the imposition of a fence.

Of all the events in London Sustainability Week, of which the Urban Green Fair was due to be a part, we can find no other borough in London that would confine a green fair or free community event of 2,000 people or more to a fence. Why is Lambeth so different ?

- ENDS -

Contact: Shane Collins 0208 671 5936
Urban Green Fair Community Interest Company
www.urbangreenfair.org.uk

Preparing for a post peak oil planet.

Event Patrons: George Monbiot, author and journalist; Jenny Jones, London Assembly Member and Ex Deputy Mayor of London: Donnachadh McCarthy, author, campaigner and ex Deputy Chair of the Lib Dems; Peter Tatchell, Civil rights activist; Charles Secrett, ex Chair of FoE, advisor to the Mayor and GLA; Jeremy Leggett, author and director of Solar Century; Caroline Lucas, MEP; Colin Challen, MP; Dr Colin Campbell, Chair of ASPO (Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas); Paul Allen, Development Director of Centre for Alternative Technology (CAT);
Brian Eno; muscian and campaigner, Aubrey Meyer; Global Commons Institute,

 

[citydreams]

Time to put a fence around Lambeth council?

Good luck in the elections!