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United 93 (film about September 11th)

andy2002 said:
The film isn't "entertainment" in the traditional sense – there's no chance whatsoever you are going to come out of the cinema with a smile on your face. It's an exhausting experience and seems keen to do two things 1) to honour the sacrifice of the people on board the flight and 2) to show you in as realistic a manner as possible what it was like to be on the receiving end of what happened on 9/11. It succeeds in both aims.
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It is still entertainment though. People subject themselves to harrowing books/films/TV/music all the time in the name of 'entertaining' themselves. Just because it isn't a barrel of laughs doesn't in itself give it a higher moral purpose, it could still be exploiting the situation.

I'll accept your point (1) as a vaild reason for the film.

As for point (2) - why do we need to know this? What does society gain from this information?
 
beeboo said:
To those who have seen the film - what did you get out of it? And what do you think the value of the film is?

I'm really intrigued by it, as my first reaction on hearing about it was exactly the same as some other people have commented - that there is something a bit unsavoury about 'exploiting' the event for entertainment value. I know real life tragedies are always the subject of movies, but the proximity to the actual event makes this different, especially when it is still very much in the public conciousness.
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Good questions Beeboo.
The kneejerk reaction to this film does appear to hinge on the notions of 'to soon' and 'explotation' niether of which I believe stand up having seen it.
Coppalla made Apocalypse Now 4 - 5 years after Vietnam was that 'to soon' or Exploiting?
When were the first movies about WW2 made? And is every film made done so on purly ecomomic 'lets make a shed load out of this' basis - no, and it would be rediculous to believe so.

I think the very fact that it is still so much in our consiousness is an entierly valid reason to see this film which leads me on to what I got out of it.

The events of 9/11 have been the subject of hyperbole and grandstanding rhetoric for us ever since that day happened and seeing the film reminded me of just how strange, how out of our scope of imagination the attacks were.
The film very sucessfully depicts this in the reactions of the ground control staff and the Military in trying to establish what on earth they are witnesing and attempting to deal with.
Explotation? I don't think so. All the families gave total consent & support and it probably will serve as a very fitting tribute to those who died actually.

Sorry - on the run - will add more later;)
 
Pie 1 said:
.. with the help of a pregnant air traffic controller.
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...with the help of Johnny:

johnny.jpg
 
I haven't seen this film but I do think that such films are not neccessarily exploitative and can even be helpful to people who feel traumatised by similar events, whether or not directly involved.

Just the fact that someone has managed to make a film about the event that records the events with some degree of accuracy, without hollywood stars, special effects, cliched heroics and revisions of history might be very helpful to people.

My personal experience of traumatic events (and I think that this is shared by many people) is that it's hard to understand how everything appears to carry on as normal after such an event. How can people laugh at comedies and get excited about cleaning products, etc. when x horrible thing has happened? It can seem as though the world has gone mad.

Of course life must go on but how do we individually and collectively deal with our feelings about these events that touch and traumatise so many people?

If you say that films must not be made about these kind of events then this adds a layer of discomfort over the top of the subject that makes it all the more difficult for people to think about and talk about.

FWIW I think that sometimes films like this (or like it sounds like this one is from the reviews here) can reduce people's sense of loneliness and isolation and help the world feel like a saner place where such things can actually be thought and spoken about. Which has to be a good thing.
 
Nice response Pie 1.

I'm not necessarily of the opinion at all that the film is exploiting the events (for starters I haven't actually seen it!) - but this was one of my first reactions to the idea of the film. The questions I'm posing are just because I'm curious.

I didn't realise Apocalypse Now was so soon after Vietnam - that is interesting. I do think 9/11 is slightly unique though - the impact in all sorts of ways (not least emotional) was immense, so despite being five years ago, time feels telescoped, as if it happened yesterday.

As you say - maybe this is a good thing - that there is still a lot to understand about our own reactions to the events and perhaps this is one of the values of the film.

I think part of my immediate reaction was because they 'plane hijack' scenario is such a rich seam for disaster movies, you can imagine film makers getting very over-excited about the potential of this story.
 
beeboo said:
I think part of my immediate reaction was because they 'plane hijack' scenario is such a rich seam for disaster movies, you can imagine film makers getting very over-excited about the potential of this story.
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Which is why it's so good that someone has played it straight.
 
Good & Bad films are going to made about the event either way. It's a moment in history thats been & gone and way more people have died in the events it subsequently caused than died [however tragically & publicly] in the event itself. Surprised Oliver Stone didn't go for the conspiracy angle, pity!
 
Reno said:
<snip>

By the way, anybody who has been getting on their high horse about United 93 being exploitative without bothering to watch it should check out the trailer for Oliver Stones typically crass approach to the subject matter. World Trade Centre appears to be the film all of you've been complaining about:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/wtc/
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Oh dear god that looks bad...Nick Cage doing some bad acting with terrible dialogue and, well it just looks bad.
 
I'm gonna go see it not cos it's about 9/11 but bcos i absolutely love airplane disaster movies. One of my favourites is the one about Aloha Airlines Flight 243.
love.gif
 
Orang Utan said:
Is it such a bad thing to be thrilled and entertained by a film depicting such events?
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Given the events are so recent, given they still touch a raw nerve amongst much of the general public, not to mention the relatives/friends of the deceased, given that the events triggered a war in which many more have died...

then yes, to make a film about these events whose primary objectives would be to thrill and entertain would, IMO, be a bad thing.

Obviously this isn't the first time that 9/11 events have been subject to dramatisation - eg the Hamburg Cell shown on C4, but that film I really think was adding something to the public 'debate' about 9/11 rather than just being 'entertainment'.

What worried me about United 93 is that it seems dangerously close to 'just' being a disaster movie - a cheap thrill at the expensive of those who died. I'm very relieved to hear that people who have seen it think it is anything but.
 
Strapline from that Oliver Stone film (no doubt delivered in a gruff voice-over):

"The world saw evil that day..
Two men saw something else..."

Oh dear.

As for for the United 93 film, it's sure been picking up rave reviews - today's 'review of reviews' in the Guardian works out at a ten!
 
beeboo said:
then yes, to make a film about these events whose primary objectives would be to thrill and entertain would, IMO, be a bad thing.
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That's not what I asked - I'm sure Greengrass is sincere in his motives - his previous films certainly indicate that - but as a viewer is it a bad thing to be thrilled and entertained by the film?
I remember how exciting it was on the day - the excitement was mixed up with horror and guilt at being excited, but it was exciting all the same.
 
Cadmus said:
I'm gonna go see it not cos it's about 9/11 but bcos i absolutely love airplane disaster movies. One of my favourites is the one about Aloha Airlines Flight 243.
love.gif
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Was that the one where most of the roof got ripped off and they still managed to land that safely ? Even though they turned that one into a crappy TV movie it was still quite compelling.
 
Orang Utan said:
That's not what I asked - I'm sure Greengrass is sincere in his motives - his previous films certainly indicate that - but as a viewer is it a bad thing to be thrilled and entertained by the film?
I remember how exciting it was on the day - the excitement was mixed up with horror and guilt at being excited, but it was exciting all the same.
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I think if they're honest most people would admit to this. Mostly, I felt horror, confusion, grief, sadness, but something else too - I'm not quite sure if excitement is the right word for it but a complete fascination with what was unfolding.

And with the best will in the world no-one is going to go to see a film at the cinema if they don't expect to be entertained on some level.

I don't know, maybe I just really want to see a good old-fashioned disaster movie on the subject but am trying to find a way to intellectualise it ;)
 
Reno said:
Was that the one where most of the roof got ripped off and they still managed to land that safely ? Even though they turned that one into a crappy TV movie it was still quite compelling.
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Yes, it was.

Two of my all time disaster film favourites are that one and The Poseidon Adventure.

Let's see if we can add United 93 to the list.
smug.gif
 
From the Philip French review:
A man in his thirties, speaking with a German accent, urges co-operation with the terrorists, believing common sense will prevail. Even after the critical consensus to fight back has been made, he continues to plead for calm and has to be suppressed
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No political statements there, then. No comment/undertone/parallel with regard the Franco-German reluctance at the UN - "Old Europe", to borrow a phrase - to support the acquisition of Iraq, cos, as the maj of Americans believe, Saddam was 'linked' to 9/11. Perhaps I'm just reading too much into a modern day German accent urging a kind of appeasement . . .


The end of Philip French's review

At the very least, it is a fitting memorial to the courage of these men and women who decided they were not going to be passive victims and ended up saving hundreds of lives and averting the destruction of a national shrine.
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I thought the understanding was it was heading for the White House - have I been reading the wrong make-believe ?



I'd suggest Philip French is probably a good film reviewer. His political views I don't need.
 
London_Calling said:
No political statements there, then. No comment/undertone/parallel with regard the Franco-German reluctance at the UN - "Old Europe", to borrow a phrase - to support the acquisition of Iraq, cos, as the maj of Americans believe, Saddam was 'linked' to 9/11.
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Have you actually seen the film, btw?
 
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