Fedayn
Well-Known Member
You've heard of Scotland?
Unite backs Jeremy Corbyn for Labour Leader
- Thread starter FaradayCaged
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You've heard of Scotland?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
He's committed to parliamentary politics.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Each of us has a moment stuck in our memories when we finally realised that Labour were no good.
They became irredeemable for me with Clause 4, although I stayed a member on sufferance from the Militant purge-onward.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The nomination is partly about making sure that there isn't a serious discussion about Labour affiliation at Unite rules conference this year - how could we seriously propose JC while also talking about disaffiliation? Would be the cry. And if it doesnt get on this agenda, then it will be off it for at least four years (till the next rules conf, just before the next election). Given the way the EC are trying to fix these agendas, (any motion proposed by the unelected Officers Group automatically rendering any other motion in that area null and void) it would probably mean disaffiliation was off the agenda for ever.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I was a bit slow as I didn't quite twig the full significance of clause 4 at the time. For me it was when Blair committed to Tory spending plans pre-election.
Where would he go?
If he went independent he might lose enough of the support that keeps him elected.
I wonder the same about John McDonnell who seems another good bloke in a sea of red tories - didn't they stuff his attempt to run for leader?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He's probably also very attached to his constituency. A friend of mine knows him well and lives in his constituency. He's a pretty active local mp. I don't condemn him for staying in.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
But aren't you back for more now? That'show i read your earlier post - that to be a genuine socialist you have to believe that the labour party can be won to some sort of socialism?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No, but to see a left candidate win the leadership of Labour would be a welcome thing, regardless of whether or not it made Labour electable. Not that I do think he will win.
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
I fell for that for a while. But then I reread Animal Farm.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Labour's 1983 election manifesto has, I think wrongly, been portrayed as extremist and hard-left. But it did contain things that I would recognise as socialism.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
how stand the gallant ssp?
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
yeh the signficance of clause 4 never reported by the media or explained to lp members.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
What was the point of you posting this?
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
For 7 years ok, 130,000 votes in 2003 etc etc.... Currently.....Hmmmmm.....
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
i was being sarcastick, it was exhsustively reported at the time and regarded as a major change for the labour party. even now tho never anlp member i can recall the wording of c4
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
They never do ditch the whole shebang. I wish they did. At least, they'd be truer to their identity.
The media portrayal of Labour as hard-left whenever they turn slightly leftward along with the conflation of socialism with stalinism et al has a lot to answer for people rolling their eyes at socialism. The power of the media can be overestimated but I don't think it's particularly clever to underestimate it either.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Sarcasm doesn't really work as a response to someone admitting they'd been a bit slow on the uptake, does it?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
without googling, 'to secure for the workers by hand and by brain the product of their labour'
close [question mark]
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange.
There's another bit after that that I've forgotten. Tony Benn wanted it amended to read like Dotties version - as 'every worker uses their hands and their brain'
There's another bit after that that I've forgotten. Tony Benn wanted it amended to read like Dotties version - as 'every worker uses their hands and their brain'
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Perhaps embarrassingly I could
To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
you're often a bit slow on the uptake and not sure always due to inattention
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
they pay the bills
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
FFS! What is that all about?
Longstanding mutual aggression pact.
19sixtysix
Bring me sunshine
Each of us has a moment stuck in our memories when we finally realised that Labour were no good.
Mine was student loans. Here was a cabinet who'd all had grants forcing kids into debt and the hands of a pure shit capitalist society. I'd marched against Keith Joseph introducing it and now Bliar was doing the tories bidding. "Education, education, education".
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
on the student loan front and my money, you don't get blood from a stone. I dread to think how most working class kids feel about university these days, since the fees and UCAS points were ramped up to fuck-you levels.
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