Your seeing things. I never mentioned c.10%.
Unemployment soars..750,000 foreign workers in 2008
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
Your seeing things. I never mentioned c.10%.
you said
"Unemployment rate in Haggerston at January 2007 (latest figure I can find) is 7.1%. Expect it has gone up since for obvious reasons."
so i estimated 10% .. was that so wrong?
and this really is irrelevent to the big issue
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
I think that the government should be the ones setting the labour codes, standards, etc.
That way, it's not only the unionized people that are benefiting, it's all workers.
Excellent post!
no it's not .. no one on here is blaming migrnats for anything, and it is easier for migrants to take many jobs as they are prepared to take low wages .. do you think UK people should work at teh wages many of the migrnats are earning?
But do you think all local people have an easier time? It really depends on who you know. Look at the distributors of all those free papers in london. How many genuinelly local paper get a chance to do those jobs......The recruitment for those jobs is sewn up so that it is all foreign students and recent migrants.
The idea that all migrant workers are disadvantaged and need our support is laughable. And to quote you " migrant workers really are disadvantaged,they need support form us all and don't need to be blamed for anything" WHAT EVEN WHEN THEYVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG?
Well, for a start, people will forget about you if you're unable to pop up and say the same cod-pyschological, bulshitty things that you always say no matter what the subject.
where do you want to start ? bnp councils, race riots, state getting more fascist etc etc
no we need a debate because the w/c are moving right instead of left and a fascist party is doing better than at any time in thsi country
I mean you're sounding like Enoch. Like I say, the actual question you're posing is one of the terms of our membership of the EU. Immigration from non-EU countries isn't really a problem, in terms of the labour market it's already hard enough for them to "take our jobs".
??? no i am against cheap labour though i accept the EU expansion was about cheap labour both migrant and in situ
thats because foreign students and migrants dont get the dole so are happy to work a couple of hours a night in a dead end job
Rod Sleeves
New Member
You are a fucking cunt.
I don't doubt it. It all means nothing outside the frame of action. The outcome you're after is a change in the terms of our membership of the EU. You seem to be very keen on keeping the discussion on the level of arbitrary rights-and-wrongs. That is to say, the "wrongness" of the suffering of the least marketable indigenous candidates.
no it is not!! LOL i am against employers paying shit wages and not employing local unemployed on decent contracts .. the eu is a symptom of capitalism not teh cause of these issues
carousel did you see the op? i am arguing for workers control .. i am an active trade unionist .. i am arguing for community control .. i am an active community activist 
and at times i think i right to point out how insane it is to have a society where millions are unemployed and the employers use cheap labour usually from abroad
and at times i think i right to point out how insane it is to have a society where millions are unemployed and the employers use cheap labour usually from abroadRod Sleeves
New Member
What has that got to do about anything? Surely political struggle if it is to mean anything is to be about self interest.
Well yes. It's a question of what you consider to be intrinsically right. I respect your values. I appreciate they're fundamental enough to be beyond explanation in the form of a series of pictures of action, beyond the usual set piece "struggles". In terms of present institutions and outcomes, I maintain you're practically demanding a change in the terms of our membership of the EU. I advocate self managed enterprises myself. What we're after amounts to change in property law really. Which I'm not too thrilled with, but that's what it is at heart. The actual obstacle I encounter to this is more to do with working class people being unwilling to take responsibility for being in control, unwilling to positively organise a system of production. Getting caught up in the role of victim and slave rather than being masters and creators of their own destiny. Blaming their problems on immigrants or the middle class or whatever, when really it's something we do to ourselves. I mean, our indigenous pro footballers compete with foreign labour, it's a debate which focuses on people with a negative and depressive outlook on life. I mean, you must know lefties and that who deliberately rough it in low paid jobs they hate in a dangerous area because they've bound moral indignation with capitalism up in their self identity. I'm sorry to go on, let me add that working class anti-immigration sentiments don't generally chime with your staunchly anti-racist pragmatism. More to do with the fact they just don't like foreigners and resent their streets turning into Poland or whatever. I had one chap going on about how poles were just albino Pakistanis the other day. Nasty. I don't want to encourage it by exacerbating their sense of victimhood in the labour market. They just suffer beta male performance anxiety, it's not a positive political frame.durruti02 said:
Well intuitively yes. However, in this post-modern age where we can take a fair stab at aggregating values across society, it transpires there is no real applicable "public interest" or "common good" that works in an analogous way to that of a single of individual. That is to say, the interests-of-the-group are full of paradox and lack of traction. As an example, if you're a victim of a highly competitive labour market, it's a lot easier to navigate the obstacle by using your talents than it is to build a political movement to implement a self managed society. Unless you're too inept. In which case, such ineptitude can only call one's initial premise into serious question. Sorry for the long post. Thanks for reading.Rod Sleeves said:
Translation: get yourself a cushy number with a pension in local government like Carousel.
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
The government is meddling in the laws of supply and demand in the labour market, fucking over some professions by lowering the averge wage and making apprenticeship uneconomical, saving others (e.g. farmers) by artificially propping up their industry. Of course it's a political matter.
You'd have to be on crack to argue, as Carousel seems to be arguing, that the farmers would have been better off just pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and changing profession at the first sign of competition rather than using their power as a lobby to protect their position.
You'd have to be on crack to argue, as Carousel seems to be arguing, that the farmers would have been better off just pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and changing profession at the first sign of competition rather than using their power as a lobby to protect their position.
Hmmm. I haven't really got much to say about the plight of farmers at all. I'm kind of caught between images of eastern Europeans packed like sardines into picking sheds and the memory of a couple of farmer acquaintances who sold up and diversified into day-nurseries and the like following the 2001 foot and mouth crisis. I remember a spokesman for the farmers' lobby a few years back, arguing the case for subsidy on the grounds they were "well behaved". It's a common enough attitude I reckon, the idea that a job is some kind of favour in return for good behaviour. Harks back to the ever mysterious and reactionary "right to work". As for an argument on this or that, best to try somewhere else mate, in the immortal words of Roy Walker, just say what you see. Or was that "it's good but it's not right"?
Ha ha. Touché. I suppose the implication is that that we don't "need" a debate at all. More a matter of addiction to our own inner voices.
You seem to imagine the seven deadly sins are actually "wrong".
I wasn't thinking about the seven deadly sins-I was thinking about you, with your cushy number in local government that enables you to come on the internet all day long posing as some kind of swashbuckling ubermensch.
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