Unbelievably Intrusive Questions On Forms

[tbaldwin]

Monitoring questions on religion and sexual orientation have become more common recently because of the introduction of new equalities legislation. If the law requires you not to discriminate on particular grounds, then you have to monitor who's using your services to make sure that they are being used by everyone, and if there's a discrepancy between the percentage of people using your service in a particular group and the local population profile, then any organisation worth its salt will take steps to address under-representation.

.

Are you sure?
How could any organisation worth its salt take steps to address under representation? And why should they bother?
Should a muslim womens organisation recruit african men?
If Asian men are underrepresnted in the workforce should your next employee be an Asian man?
How can you address under representation and support equal opportunities?

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

ok - thanks.

I was wondering if people in Scotland had to answer that or if it was just region specific.

On some forms you get a box for langages such as gaelic,cornish,welsh etc and are asked to tick and say which language you speak

 

[berniedicters]

Are you sure?
How could any organisation worth its salt take steps to address under representation? And why should they bother?
Should a muslim womens organisation recruit african men?
If Asian men are underrepresnted in the workforce should your next employee be an Asian man?
How can you address under representation and support equal opportunities?

Feh. There are plenty of ways around this. In my case, it might simply be a question of making sure that the service is targeted appropriately, or that better provision is made to provide it in a way that makes minority groups feel more able to take it on.

I don't have a problem in principle with the general idea of gathering data like this; I do have a problem with the way it is being gathered.

 

[laptop]

Should a muslim womens organisation recruit african men?

If they're Muslim and transsexual, probably yes

Be serious. This is defensive monitoring: the organisation needs to show that it is checking whether its services are reaching the whole of its target group.

Thence the line in the muslim women's organisation's annual report: "we have identified that we are failing to reach muslim women with disabilities and are planning steps to remedy this, sometime".

 

[tbaldwin]

Be serious. This is defensive monitoring: the organisation needs to show that it is checking whether its services are reaching the whole of its target group.

Thence the line in the muslim women's organisation's annual report: "we have identified that we are failing to reach muslim women with disabilities and are planning steps to remedy this, sometime".

Problem is that these forms are often not designed by individual organisation but by funding organisations etc and can seriously miss the point.
And the most widespread discrimination (Class Discrimination) is simply ignored which makes it all bollocks anyway.

 

[longdog]

Of course we'd all been smoking crack while shagging more than Casanova. I've never trusted government data about kids since.

There should be a question on the application form for all government statisticians...

"Are you aware that most adults and all children think giving stupid, false and contradictory answers to surveys is funny?"

 

[berniedicters]

Problem is that these forms are often not designed by individual organisation but by funding organisations etc and can seriously miss the point.

If you'd actually read the thread, you'd know that the design problems go WAY beyond that trivial detail.

And the most widespread discrimination (Class Discrimination) is simply ignored which makes it all bollocks anyway.

That'd be silly. All you end up with is some kind of subjective assessment of what some 12 year old kid chooses, for whatever reason, to make you think he might be today.

And, as it happens, I don't see why class should have any effect on how my service is accessible to pupils. Perhaps that's just your own particular hobby-horse?

 

[FiFi]

There should be a question on the application form for all government statisticians...

"Are you aware that most adults and all children think giving stupid, false and contradictory answers to surveys is funny?"

Hence the number of Jedi Knights we suddenly seem to have in the country.

 

[MikeMcc]

This is a form for the kids, not yourself, yeah? It might be a bit odd to ask an 11-year-old what their sexuality is, but you said 11-18 year olds. Older teenagers could say what they consider their sexuality to be. Or, you know, they could just not say anything - it's hardly obligatory.

But has not been said what the form is for. Reporting sexuality might be important for choosing shared accomodation (i.e. are you willing to share or foster share with said one legged, bisexual, unmarried mother of three, politically sensitive on U75 and other media outlets... ). It may well be totally in-approapriate for requesting a library card.

 

[Sunspots]

*bump*

(Admittedly not education/employment related, but this seems a relevant thread to mention it on...)

I just had a phone call about my tenancy from my Housing Association, asking me similar questions; name, date of birth, race/ethnicity, nationality, religion, and sexuality. These things are apparently now relevant to a tenancy agreement.

It was stressed to me before I answered that it was optional to answer, but I did answer anyway.

Then I asked him, firstly, whether he considered it necessary to ask all those questions; what relevance should religion and sexuality have on deciding somebody's need for housing? Secondly, did he not think that it was a bit inappropriate, asking these personal questions over the phone; after all, he could be anybody...?

I didn't get a decent answer; he just mumbled something about 'the government' a couple of times. I half-jokingly mumbled back about how such intrusiveness will be standard and presumably non-optional if ID cards ever become a reality...

I appreciate they have to collate figures that show they're housing a varied demographic, but asking questions about religion and sexuality still seems irrelevant to me. Might follow this up and query it further with the Housing Association...

Or... am I just thinking too much about this?

 

[kyser_soze]

One of my jobs is part-funded by, well, let's call it a "devolved governmental body". As part of the trade, we are required to provide certain statistical information regarding the use of our service, which is for 11-18 year old children, to them.

I've just got a look at the new reporting requirements, which include the following gems:

Sexual Orientation (Bisexual, Gay/lesbian, Heterosexual, Not known)

Religion or Belief (Baha'i, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jain, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Other, Not known)

Now, I think that it is highly inappropriate to be asking questions like this, particularly of the younger age group, and particularly in the context in which we work with these kids. But maybe I'm being precious?

Does an 11 year old necessarily know what their sexuality is by then? Should they even be being asked about it if it isn't what they're worried about?

So I wondered what other people thought. And what kinds of questions you've found yourselves having to answer or ask on questionnaires that you thought were a bit over the top?

It's all for bean counting purposes. Blame the identity-politics industry for it.

 

[Wookey]

I wish someone had had the decency and broadmindedness to ask me if I was gay when I was 11.

It might have prevented several more years of social invisibility, alienation and self-doubt.

As it was, the only adults to mention it told me: "They might all call you gay - but don't you worry - we know you aren't!"

Which was in itself a good lesson in how the world prefers to marginalise difference, than acknowledge it.

 

[nadia]

I don't see then point of discussing my marital status on job applications 9and not the diversity form either). why should that affect my employability.

 

[Mation]

Tangentially to the OP, I got phoned up by the plinth people t'other day to check I'm good to go and see if I had any questions. After a five minute chat the chap said, so can I just confirm your date of birth, which I did. And then he said "and obviously, can you confirm that you're white British"

I said why on earth would I confirm that, given that I'm not

I would have been offended but the poor man was so flummoxed and embarrassed that he couldn't manage the rest of the conversation very well. To be fair to him, after his stupid assumption that I'm white, presumably based on my voice/accent, I got the feeling he only said 'obviously' as he was embarrassed at having to ask the question and wanted to get it over with as quickly as possible. It was very funny.

 

[Ms Ordinary]

And then he said "and obviously, can you confirm that you're white British"

At least he asked, and didn't just write it down .

Though I sometimes think it would be more relevant with job interviews if the interviewer had to write down what ethnicity they thought the interviewee was.

(yes, I know that's not what's supposed to be being monitored).

 

[Treacle Toes]

Tangentially to the OP, I got phoned up by the plinth people t'other day to check I'm good to go and see if I had any questions. After a five minute chat the chap said, so can I just confirm your date of birth, which I did. And then he said "and obviously, can you confirm that you're white British" :eek:

I said why on earth would I confirm that, given that I'm not

I would have been offended but the poor man was so flummoxed and embarrassed that he couldn't manage the rest of the conversation very well. To be fair to him, after his stupid assumption that I'm white, presumably based on my voice/accent, I got the feeling he only said 'obviously' as he was embarrassed at having to ask the question and wanted to get it over with as quickly as possible. It was very funny.

Dear oh dear......10 + for cringe factor!