UKIP propose 5 year ban on immigration if elected

[tbaldwin]

Good point.

'No borders' would make more sense. Otherwise they're just a pointless bunch of fences and bureaucrats wondering what they're doing there.

So does anybody apart from the likes of Gary Glitter really want 'No Borders' ?

 

[N_igma]

So does anybody apart from the likes of Gary Glitter really want 'No Borders' ?

Anarchists.

 

[tbaldwin]

Anarchists.

What all of them??????

 

[Spion]

I wonder if anbody does really believe in "Open Borders"
It seems utterly ridiculous

So, tell me, why do you want to maintain borders?

 

[tbaldwin]

So, tell me, why do you want to maintain borders?

Cos Im an International Socialist.
In other words i look at the International and Class consequences of supporting free market policies on migration.

I believe in state planning and protection of workers rights.

 

[Spion]

Cos Im an International Socialist.
In other words i look at the International and Class consequences of supporting free market policies on migration.

I believe in state planning and protection of workers rights.

You're some contortionist, Baldwin. Carry on like that and you won't know which hole you're meant to shit out of

 

[treelover]

Thats a disgraceful slur and should be retracted or even condemned by the mods, on Urban anyone who detracts from the default position that mass migration is wonderful and has no deficits is attacked as a racist or even now a left fascist.

I have concluded that if durruti02 isn't a troll, he's Alistair McConnachie who appears to be a Strasserite in thin disguise.

Anyone have anything to share on McConnachie's www. sovereignty.org.uk (broken until I hear from you) or on the Optimum Population Trust which appears to get cited mostly by the far right?

 

[durruti02]

This appears to be an attempt to introduce a new sense of "bigoted", purporting to mean "pointing out the bigotry of your fellow-travellers"?

durutti02 has acknowledged that his position overlaps with the apparently-Strasserite commentator cited. You?

You do know what a Strasserite is, don't you?

intelectually feebly mate you are .. qoute .. "his position overlaps" .. FFS mate grow up .. debate properly

p.s. he is not a strasserite anyway far from it (they were far more into national revolution and the working class) .. this character seems to be more third way and hes into Prince Charles!! LOL

mate if you can only debate with someone when they are trying to raise issues of how migration impacts on the w/c and how we can deal progressively with that, by trying to smear them with being a royalist supporting nationalist you really need a reality check !! LOL

tb treelover biff .. it is an amazng sight these liberals desperately squirming and smearing while the continue to deny ANY affect from migration

 

[durruti02]

Thats a disgraceful slur and should be retracted or even condemned by the mods, on Urban anyone who detracts from the default position that mass migration is wonderful and has no deficits is attacked as a racist or even now a left fascist.

some chance mate .. sad isn't it

what i find really funny/sad is we have 'slavs' and 'blacks' doing all the shit dirty work in our society .. a racist situation to my mind yet NOT A WORD of condemnation from the left

 

[audiotech]

some chance mate .. sad isn't it

what i find really funny/sad is we have 'slavs' and 'blacks' doing all the shit dirty work in our society .. a racist situation to my mind yet NOT A WORD of condemnation from the left

But the woman who cleans the communal areas of the block of flats where I live was born locally.

 

[durruti02]

But the woman who cleans the communal areas of the block of flats where I live was born locally.

yes MC .. that may well be the case and for millions like her .. but the millions of africans and poles who live here are as a class fulfilling that role .. do you dispute this??? do you dispute they are being used generally to do shit dirty work, picking spuds, cleaning streets, nannying, painting walls and digging ditches???

 

[audiotech]

yes MC .. that may well be the case and for millions like her .. but the millions of africans and poles who live here are as a class fulfilling that role .. do you dispute this??? do you dispute they are being used generally to do shit dirty work, picking spuds, cleaning streets, nannying, painting walls and digging ditches???

I do dispute this because it's bollocks. The majority of people who do these jobs are workers born here, who btw, don't think their jobs are "shit". Most have pride in what they do. !'ll grant you that the wages are crap, but something can be done about that.

Some immigrants do these jobs too, but the majority of immigrants are employed in skilled and semi-skilled work.

http://www.tomorrowproject.net/pub/1__GLIMPSES/Employment/-244.html#A-244:7

Your recent conversion to the politics of the CPB (M-L) hasn't improved the intellectual level of your posts any btw.

 

[durruti02]

I do dispute this because it's bollocks. The majority of people who do these jobs are workers born here, who btw, don't think their jobs are "shit". Most have pride in what they do. !'ll grant you that the wages are crap, but something can be done about that.

Some immigrants do these jobs too, but the majority of immigrants are employed in skilled and semi-skilled work.

http://www.tomorrowproject.net/pub/1__GLIMPSES/Employment/-244.html#A-244:7

Your recent conversion to the politics of the CPB (M-L) hasn't improved the intellectual level of your posts any btw.

oh god mc yes of course the majority is still yes indiginous .. and yes of course they have pride .. that is theh fucking point mate .. this whole neo liberal process is ALSO about deskilling and dehumanizing .. but the process is still fairly new and not slowing is it?? p.s. have you read that link you just put up!!!!!!?????

"The chart below shows how UK immigration has increased substantially since the late 1990s. Net immigration (inflows less outflows) reached 172,000 in 2001, falling away to 153,000 in 2002 and 151,000 the next year, but racing to 223,000 in 2004 following the expansion of the EU. David Coleman, the Oxford demographer, believes that this influx of Eastern Europeans has been so large that the only comparable parallel was the migration of the French Huguenots after 1685.3Quoted in The Sunday Times, 14 May 2006.Over the decade to 2004, approaching 4.4 million immigrants entered the country and just over 3 million people left, giving a net inflow of well over one million"

and p.s. it also relies on state stats which toatlly underestimate the black economy side of the equation .. which is very big under neo liberalism

and p.s. don't change what i say ... where did i say it wasn't semi or skilled work?? i said it was dirty - nursing catering building etc etc (not that it was unskilled) and also unskilled - argiculture cleaning .. and cheap in the sense that the wage rates are below what the were before

and of course what is SO sad is that so many of the workers doing unskilled work are highly skilled and desperately missed where they come from

so what did you disagree with in the cpb article?

 

[nino_savatte]

some chance mate .. sad isn't it

what i find really funny/sad is we have 'slavs' and 'blacks' doing all the shit dirty work in our society .. a racist situation to my mind yet NOT A WORD of condemnation from the left

Again, another opportunity for you to excoriate the so-called "left". The system that produces this inequality is never attacked by you. Instead, you attack the mysterious "left".

 

[audiotech]

oh god mc yes of course the majority is still yes indiginous .. and yes of course they have pride .. that is theh fucking point mate .. this whole neo liberal process is ALSO about deskilling and dehumanizing .. but the process is still fairly new and not slowing is it?? p.s. have you read that link you just put up!!!!!!?????

"The chart below shows how UK immigration has increased substantially since the late 1990s. Net immigration (inflows less outflows) reached 172,000 in 2001, falling away to 153,000 in 2002 and 151,000 the next year, but racing to 223,000 in 2004 following the expansion of the EU. David Coleman, the Oxford demographer, believes that this influx of Eastern Europeans has been so large that the only comparable parallel was the migration of the French Huguenots after 1685.3Quoted in The Sunday Times, 14 May 2006.Over the decade to 2004, approaching 4.4 million immigrants entered the country and just over 3 million people left, giving a net inflow of well over one million"

and p.s. it also relies on state stats which toatlly underestimate the black economy side of the equation .. which is very big under neo liberalism

and p.s. don't change what i say ... where did i say it wasn't semi or skilled work?? i said it was dirty - nursing catering building etc etc (not that it was unskilled) and also unskilled - argiculture cleaning .. and cheap in the sense that the wage rates are below what the were before

and of course what is SO sad is that so many of the workers doing unskilled work are highly skilled and desperately missed where they come from

so what did you disagree with in the cpb article?

The article is a rambling piece which admits that there is a need:

...to get to grips with the evidence and base our arguments on them. At the moment there is too much claptrap coming from both "sides"...

True.

Just so I can get to grips with it. Where is your evidence that labour is

cheap in the sense that the wage rates are below what the were before

?

I did read the other article that I linked to and?

 

[durruti02]

Again, another opportunity for you to excoriate the so-called "left". The system that produces this inequality is never attacked by you. Instead, you attack the mysterious "left".

no nino i never attack the system do i

 

[becky p]

Again, another opportunity for you to excoriate the so-called "left". The system that produces this inequality is never attacked by you. Instead, you attack the mysterious "left".

Thats right nino. Anybody who disagrees with you is a nazi or a tory.

 

[nino_savatte]

no nino i never attack the system do i

Nah, you spend a lot of your time either bitching about the "left", scapegoating immigrants; playing status games and deliberately misreading posts. You don't "attack" anything apart from immigration, which you label as "poaching". Anyone who doesn't accept your pronouncements is either a "neo-liberal" or they're "playing into the hands of the BNP".

You're a joke.

 

[tbaldwin]

You're a joke.

Projection.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nope, you are a joke. Anyone who calls themself an "authoritarian socialist" and then makes a number of posts, all of which contain language redolent of the right is something of a joke in my book.

Now clear off before I tell your parents you're making a nuisance of yourself.

 

[laptop]

Anyone who doesn't accept your pronouncements is either a "neo-liberal" or they're "playing into the hands of the BNP".

And anyone who does accept them is... er... falling for a troll?

These posters' claims to be "socialists" are wearing thinner by the keystroke.

 

[tbaldwin]

And anyone who does accept them is... er... falling for a troll?

These posters' claims to be "socialists" are wearing thinner by the keystroke.

So do you still think durruti is a strasserite? Just out of interest, so that we all know where your coming from........

 

[laptop]

So do you still think durruti is a strasserite? Just out of interest, so that we all know where your coming from........

Which part of "if" do you not understand?

 

[tbaldwin]

Which part of "if" do you not understand?

The I and the F.

 

[nino_savatte]

And anyone who does accept them is... er... falling for a troll?

These posters' claims to be "socialists" are wearing thinner by the keystroke.

Innit? I have never understood what is so socialist about being in favour of immigration controls or by using the same language as the far right.