UKIP propose 5 year ban on immigration if elected

[stupid kid]

Party with no hope of winning a general election makes ridiculous pledge that they have no idea of how they will implement sensation!

After seeing this claim I'm wondering if it the way it works is that the further you actually are from power the more ridiculous the claims you can make.

Even the Monster Raving Loony's pledge to bring in a 99p coin is more realistic than banning immigration for 5 years. (That said they were on about 24 hour drinking years before it got made law).

 

[nino_savatte]

Hardly. The Tories are supporters of EU membership. So they're on your side, not mine.

I'm talking about your excoriation of union activity in the 70's...do pay attention.

While you're here

MEPs don't serve their constituents because they have so little power. I vote for UKIP because it is the only credible party I know of that opposes the EU (

You mean UKIP MEPs don't serve their constituencies which begs the question why bother standing for election when there is no intention on the part of UKIP to participate.

Say, isn't UKIP part of a nasty right wing bloc in the Euro parliament that includes The Vlaams Bloc, the Northern League and Fianna Fail?

 

[goneforlunch]

I'm talking about your excoriation of union activity in the 70's...do pay attention.

I knew what you were talking about, but the opportunity to point out that you are more supportive of the Tory Party's position than I am in at least one respect was to good to pass up.

I think the union movement had very genuine greivances and were mis-represented in the media, and the management were not prepared to compromise as they should have done, but I still think the action taken by the government was necessary because we were the sick man of Europe, even though part of this sickness was caused by management and political failings. (Like the failure to re-tool industries after the second world war with Marshall Aid plan money as had happened in continental Europe.)

You mean UKIP MEPs don't serve their constituencies which begs the question why bother standing for election when there is no intention on the part of UKIP to participate.

No. I mean no MEPs serve their constituents because they have so little power, which is exactly what I said in the earlier (unless of course a constituent actually supports a united Europe and feels served if MEPs do too, but by that criteria UKIP serves its voters too.)

UKIP also serves a purpose by opposing the EU's integration project and seeing that those interested have the anti-EU point of view, and by working with groups like NO2ID. It also gives members of the public a chance to voice a protest.

Say, isn't UKIP part of a nasty right wing bloc in the Euro parliament that includes The Vlaams Bloc, the Northern League and Fianna Fail?

UKIP belongs to the Independence and Democracy Group in the EP and this page lists its members, and it makes up the largest number of MEPs in it. This group is in line with UKIP's stance, which is not nasty, unless you think merely being right wing is nasty?

 

[nino_savatte]

I knew what you were talking about, but the opportunity to point out that you are more supportive of the Tory Party's position than I am in at least one respect was to good to pass up.

This is the sort of twisted logic that I've come to expect from UKIPers and members of fringe parties and other political cults.

 

[nino_savatte]

No. I mean no MEPs serve their constituents because they have so little power, which is exactly what I said in the earlier (unless of course a constituent actually supports a united Europe and feels served if MEPs do too, but by that criteria UKIP serves its voters too.)

UKIP also serves a purpose by opposing the EU's integration project and seeing that those interested have the anti-EU point of view, and by working with groups like NO2ID. It also gives members of the public a chance to voice a protest

Those MEPs haven't gone to Strasbourg with the specific intention of doing nothing and taking a salary as UKIP has. That's the difference.

More cult nonsense.

 

[goneforlunch]

Those MEPs haven't gone to Strasbourg with the specific intention of doing nothing and taking a salary as UKIP has. That's the difference.

More cult nonsense.

Well they haven't done nothing. They've voted against integration proposals. That's why they were sent there.

More cult nonsense. You said it.

 

[nino_savatte]

Well they haven't done nothing. They've voted against integration proposals. That's why they were sent there.

More cult nonsense. You said it.

"They've voted against integration proposals". In other words they're acting as fifth columnists. How very constructive.

I don't belong to a political party, so I cannot be a cultist. You, on the other hand, are a member of a tiny political party - a cult, if you prefer.

 

[goneforlunch]

"They've voted against integration proposals". In other words they're acting as fifth columnists. How very constructive.

I'm don't belong to a political party, so I cannot be a cultist. You, on the other hand, are a member of a tiny political party - a cult, if you prefer.

That, and the other work they do, is very constructive to those of who don't trust those who run the EU, some of whom are British politicians, nino_savatte. As they are there by democratic vote, they deserve their salaries every bit as much as any MEP does.

I don't prefer the word cult, too many religious connotations, so political party will do fine. It's a tiny political party, that's true, but it has had a huge impact on EU politics nevertheless.

 

[nino_savatte]

I don't prefer the word cult, too many religious connotations, so political party will do fine. It's a tiny political party, that's true, but it has had a huge impact on EU politics nevertheless.

I find that the word "cult" is a very apposite way of describing many political parties. After all, what is a political ideology but a set of beliefs? What "other work" do UKIP MEPs do? They don';t want to be there but they are there...it sounds to me that they don't know what they want other than the abolition of the EU and a return to the days of imperial preference. As for so-called free trade, for many countries, it's anything but free .

I think you've overestimated UKIP's influence on Europe.

 

[durruti02]

Agree

Well, that's in the ABC of trade unionism, or should be

Don't agree. You turn up outside a labour agency with your placards and it's only going to look like you're attacking foreign workers. It looks like 'workers' immigration control'

Another one from the ABC, tho I think you should make clear that there should be a huge recruiting drive of immigrant workers to the TUs and generally to build solidarity between existing residents and new migrants

ABCs again

Again, it's 'workers' immigration control' and if you start campaigning against foreign workers you'll end up with the BNP standing next to you at your protest. They'll love it

I think you some basic TU-ism ideas here, but you also have some nationalist ones. I also think that if you didn't start all your threads by haranguing your own personal vision of what 'the left' is and instead set out what you actually wanted then you might have got a lot further

cheers spion .. you may be right about presentation .. i hoped people would be capable of reading posts in their entirity and actually thinking about them ( as you seem to have done) instead of weak knee jerk bullshit accusations of racism and BNP trolling

yes the trade union suggestions are ABCs .. but my point is entirely they are NOT being followed ..

i do fundamentally disagree though that 'workers immigration control' is in any way nationalistic .. tbh it is NOT 'workers immigration control' BUT 'workers control' i am after ..

this is where the left have lost sight .. workers control is fundamental .. an ABC as you put it .. yet we are DENYING workers the right to control their lives .. why?

and you are so wrong about ending up siding with the bnp .. they are racist pure and simple .. there is NO ONE coming out with a class analysis .. THAT is the problem .. THAT is why people will continue to move to the far right ..

 

[durruti02]

No mate learn to swim the tide your a soft lefty whose accepted right wing cliches on immigration. Move on

soft left!! he he really??? not been called that EVER!! please show some evidence of this

p.s. most people think i am several miles to the left of your SW

so OL .. do you accept immigration has happenned?
do you accept that under capital major phenomena like this are at the behest of capital?
do you not think there should be a class position on immigration

cos otherwise .. which was the point of this thread .. scum like the bnp and ukip will continue to gain support while the left continues to collapse

 

[durruti02]

I have concluded that if durruti02 isn't a troll, he's Alistair McConnachie who appears to be a Strasserite in thin disguise.

Anyone have anything to share on McConnachie's www. sovereignty.org.uk (broken until I hear from you) or on the Optimum Population Trust which appears to get cited mostly by the far right?

jesus carry on flailing!! why do you not deal with issues you people instead of desperately seeking to undermine by association!! FFS

actually i do like this

http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/features/articles/immig7.html

"Why do the Left insist on doing this? [supporting mass migration]

Why do they seek to geld opposition to neo-liberalism from the working class by misusing the idea of "international solidarity" when it is not appropriate to the circumstances, nor the interests, of the people to whom they are speaking?

The reason is because the Left's over-arching ideology of "equality" demands that they put "equality for all" before the interests of any specific element of the working class.

Therefore, if working class people in England are being displaced from apprenticeships, or jobs, by already qualified Eastern Europeans, or Somali refugees, then the Leftist will not stand up for the English indigenous working class because his doctrine of "equality" mandates that he cannot and must not "discriminate" between people in any way.

Therefore, he will argue that the Somali has a right to this job too and that the Englishman needs to see himself, not as part of a national citizenry, but rather as part of an amorphous "international working class" in which he is "equal" with this Somali and shares "solidarity" with this Somali "working class person". Viewed this way, the Englishman can only lose.

To promote "equality", the Englishman is expected to deny his interests, forfeit his rights and cede his space in the name of "solidarity" with someone he's never met, who is likely not a citizen, and is probably a law-breaker!

As a consequence of its ideological obsession with "equality", the Left cannot and will not oppose free movement of labour and so it must try deliberately to pervert and misuse the idea of solidarity in order to neuter any working class opposition to the open-borders of neo-liberalism."

this is interesting .. i disagree with it though in his reading of it as nationalities .. instead of localism /

and sorry to disappoint you i fundamentally disagree with nationalism .. ideologically and practically .. and he seems pretty keen on nationalism

do you really not see the differrence between militant workers control on a local basis and nationalism????

do you really not see that internationalism is meaningless if you have NO power locally???

 

[nino_savatte]

Where's my "Shakes head in incredulity" smiley when I need one?

 

[durruti02]

Where's my "Shakes head in incredulity" smiley when I need one?

er cos you need to actually make a point first!

 

[nino_savatte]

er cos you need to actually make a point first!

I already have, O sagacious one.

 

[durruti02]

I already have, O sagacious one.

you are indeed a man of mystery nino

 

[nino_savatte]

you are indeed a man of mystery nino

Hardly. I made my point, you thought it wasn't a point. What am I supposed to do? Wave a magic wand? Put a gun to your head?

 

[durruti02]

Hardly. I made my point, you thought it wasn't a point. What am I supposed to do? Wave a magic wand? Put a gun to your head?

generally people refer to what they are er referring too instead of general shakes of the head but whatever .. bit you know non specific

 

[nino_savatte]

generally people refer to what they are er referring too instead of general shakes of the head but whatever .. bit you know non specific

I thought was pretty bloody obvious...or are you being deliberately slow?

 

[tbaldwin]

I have concluded that if durruti02 isn't a troll, he's Alistair McConnachie who appears to be a Strasserite in thin disguise.

Anyone have anything to share on McConnachie's www. sovereignty.org.uk (broken until I hear from you) or on the Optimum Population Trust which appears to get cited mostly by the far right?

What a very bigoted and ignorant post.

 

[laptop]

What a very bigoted and ignorant post.

This appears to be an attempt to introduce a new sense of "bigoted", purporting to mean "pointing out the bigotry of your fellow-travellers"?

durutti02 has acknowledged that his position overlaps with the apparently-Strasserite commentator cited. You?

You do know what a Strasserite is, don't you?

 

[tbaldwin]

This appears to be an attempt to introduce a new sense of "bigoted", purporting to mean "pointing out the bigotry of your fellow-travellers"?

durutti02 has acknowledged that his position overlaps with the apparently-Strasserite commentator cited. You?

You do know what a Strasserite is, don't you?

Strasserite is a term used by twats, who still think this is 1930s Germany against all the evidence......

To try and claim that Durruti is now a Strasserite is pathetic.....More of a closet Distributist in my book.

 

[biff curtains]

durutti02 has acknowledged that his position overlaps with the apparently-Strasserite commentator cited. You?

That's funny, I thought he said it was interesting but he disagreed with it.

The Sovreignty bloke seems like a twat, and he's mates with Respect national council member Dr Mohammed Naseem interestingly enough!

 

[laptop]

Whereas "twats" is of course a precise term of political analysis whose historical roots contribute to undertstanding current tendencies, and not at all a random insult used by those with no argument but prejudice.

 

[tbaldwin]

Whereas "twats" is of course a precise term of political analysis whose historical roots contribute to undertstanding current tendencies, and not at all a random insult used by those with no argument but prejudice.

No arguement. Or just one you find difficult to understand?
One of the difficulties here is that a lot of people have been channeled into believing that cos a minority element of right wingers are anti immigration, that they have to be pro immigration.
And then when anybody questions that position, they assume that the people are ignorant and or racist....Its a bit infantile really.

 

[Lock&Light]

Whereas "twats" is of course a precise term of political analysis whose historical roots contribute to undertstanding current tendencies, and not at all a random insult used by those with no argument but prejudice.

A twat is a twat, whatever the preferable word might be. As a twat, you should know that, IMO.

 

[nino_savatte]

A twat is a twat, whatever the preferable word might be. As a twat, you should know that, IMO.

You should know, you're a Grade A, first class twat with oak leaf clusters.

 

[Lock&Light]

You should know, you're a Grade A, first class twat with oak leaf clusters.

Still stalking me, I see.

 

[tbaldwin]

I wonder if anbody does really believe in "Open Borders"
It seems utterly ridiculous, i wonder if there was a poll on it in the UK, how many people would vote for it?

 

[8ball]

I wonder if anbody does really believe in "Open Borders"

Good point.

'No borders' would make more sense. Otherwise they're just a pointless bunch of fences and bureaucrats wondering what they're doing there.