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UKIP leadership fights and battles

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Fedayn, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. treelover

    treelover Well-Known Member

    Bank's plan is for a movement(like Momentum, which at present doesn't seem to have any) possibly called Patriotic Britain, if he does, it may get more purchase than the EDL, perhaps UKIP, and won't be as easy to challenge., especially on the streets, etc.
  2. Dom Traynor

    Dom Traynor Ngāti Tarara

    Bet Banks came out of a meeting this morning with multiple missed calls from George Galloway, Robert Kilroy Silk, and Winston McKenzie
    kebabking likes this.
  3. kebabking

    kebabking Unfettered ambition

    Shit, can you imagine the entertainment value of a party that is formed by by the cranks, loons and egotists who leave UKIP because it's too mainstream?

    Given Banks's, err.... bank, the chaos will have some majestic publicity stunts blow up in its face!
    Dom Traynor likes this.
  4. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    i wouldn't laugh it off. Le Pen and Wilders are both leading in their national elections precisely on tickets which Patriotic Alliance will be echoing - namely primarily an anti-migrant 'platform'. There will be much to exploit, post-Brexit, on a "look, there are still foreigners here!" , "they're not deporting them fast enough", "employers need to be taxed for hiring foreign workers" level.

    The problem is - and it would seem to be a big problem - that UKIP have the brand recognition and are now the third biggest party. Seems incredible to jack that in and start over. But I can see it working...once UKIP voters learn that they are better represented by Patriotic Alliance I can imagine the switch.

    Hopefully it wont work and it will sink both UKIP and the PA in one move.
    Dom Traynor and emanymton like this.
  5. killer b

    killer b Gazing vacantly at a plate of mince

    I think Banks' plan is more likely to jettison the cranks & loons (keep the egotists) rather than form a party with them.
  6. brogdale

    brogdale Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism

    s'like those cowboy double-glazing outfits that go bust and open up next day under a new name...hoping that the punters won't notice the same address, or the fucking mess they made of their previous work.
    romeo2001 and kebabking like this.
  7. Libertad

    Libertad Sweetie

    Phoenix UKIPS.
    kebabking likes this.
  8. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    I'm expecting he wants to jettison those not anti-migrant enough... Following Farage's anti-Carswell pronouncement that the likes of him are stopping making the anti-migrant message sufficiently central. Calling the party Patriotic Alliance (if that does end up being the name) backs that up.
  9. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    This is a reading that is miles off in my view - for two reasons. Firstly the huge difference between the political systems in those countries and the political weight the FN and the PVV have as a (partial) result of this allied to their historical records. And secondly in what it assumes about the politics in this country.

    The FN has been going for nearly 50 years now (and is actually in direct continuity with post-war fascist and far-right groups, who themselves are part of a longer tradition). They have roots. Real roots.10s of thousands of activists. Effectively normalised and part of the french political mainstream since the early 80s (since 82 i would say). They cannot be compared with a top-down billionaire's plaything with no roots, no membership and no history. Or any history they have being tied up with a group they would now be in competition with - and crucially, in a political system that punishes - and is designed to punish - upstart challengers. And in competition with a party that has pretty much swallowed up all the territory that such a system can allow to be taken. Again, the FN were faced with very different system based on proportional voting. The PVV (fading fast in the last pre-election polls ) is similarly utterly reliant on proportional representation

    There is no electorally significant support for a policy of simply deporting foreigners. If there were a far-right party with that policy would have won at least one MP by now. They haven't. Never. Not once. UKIP (not the third biggest party btw) have managed a single MP at a GE and that largely on a personal vote. That policy is an utter no-starter for any party with serious ambitions. And for those who do support such a policy such a 'respectable' group would have no interest for them.

    In short, having similar policies is not really the key here.
  10. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    interesting about the roots and history, yet the fact is ukip are polling third...why are you disagreeing about that?

    Of course different parties have different histories and different policies, and we can only speculate what Patriotic Alliance might be, but the underlying sentiments of Trump, Le Pen, Wilders and Patriotic Alliance are sufficiently similar. Patriotic Alliance may find language and policies that are more acceptable to a British palette, but the sentiments they feed off will be the same.

    As for voting systems (proportional representation etc), I don't see the relevance to the point I was making.

    As to policies of deportation, we already have policies in place that are kicking out longstanding residents in the UK, with several million EU citizens resident in the UK about to have to go through some kind of process, asylum seekers will have their status reviewed every 5 years and will be deported if a bureaucrat so decides, etc etc. My point is there'll be plenty more "to exploit, post-Brexit "
  11. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    UKIP have one MP. How many do the SNP have? Is UKIP's one MP either either safe or going to be a UKIP member much longer? Are the SNP's seats pretty safe? The answer to that in itself highlights the importance of the voting systems as regards new parties. UKIP with 12.7% of the total votes case returning a single MP. The SNP with 4.7% returning 56. Any new post UKIP party is going to both be on the wrong side of that set-up and still in competition with UKIP. Even a total crushing UKIP by a new party still leaves them on the wrong side of the equation. They are not going to be in a situation like Le Pen as a result. That's a response to both the question about third largest party and the importance of the voting systems.

    Well in that case doesn't that ask some questions about the nature of the EU then? And where is the space for a new party with this deport all foreigners policy if this is already the situation? But to be more exact, your characterisation of this potential new party was on a simple deport all foreigners basis. My post was suggesting there is no significant electoral support for such a blanket position and that past election results bear that out. It's not a policy the BNP had btw - they simply copied the Foreign/Home Office's support for funded voluntary repatriation, recognising that anything else was not a voter winner and an easy tie to extremism for their opponents to make). Further, the parties that have been in power doing all these things have not campaigned on a central platform of deporting all foreigners. Because it's not electorally popular. Why would a new party with no roots, no history, suddenly manage to gain significant influence by adopting such a policy?
    Dom Traynor likes this.
  12. 2hats


    Carswell has announced that he has left the party to become an independent.

    BBC journalist suggesting that the main party had little (no) idea that he was about to do this.
    Badgers likes this.
  13. agricola

    agricola a genuine importer of owls

    It is terrible to watch this happen to a party like that, especially when its too early to drink socially.
    marty21, brogdale, Badgers and 6 others like this.
  14. taffboy gwyrdd

    taffboy gwyrdd Embrace the confusion!

    Carswell's wise departure won't stop the BBC or other "news" organisations deep fascination with their reactionary politics. Fair enough, if Banks gets more of his nonsense off the ground then that might get some of the limelight intsead.

    Banks' profile has risen a fair bit of late, because he wants it to, because he is rich, because he is an extremist and because "news" media are willing dupes for rich attention seeking extremism. It's edgy, and of course it's "anti establishment". It's not "racist" though, just "populist" you understand.

    The fact that UKIP are collapsing in on themselves underlines how shameful it is that our country is being driven by their rancid agenda, and the immense damage caused by the ceaseless drooling attention given to Farage during the long years when they had no support than (say) the green party.

    "wow he's holding a pint, how amazing" - such imbecilic "journalism" went on for years and years and we will live with the results long after it's become obvious to all but the most myopic that the values and practicalities are as shambolic as they are disgusting.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
  15. gosub

    gosub ~#

    Didn't stop this lot:

    I bet that cava tasted really bitter.
    agricola and kebabking like this.
  16. existentialist

    existentialist Spartacus? No, never heard of him.

    I hope it was British cava :hmm:
  17. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    Does anyone think Carswell had a mission when he joined UKIP? He was never popular internally despite being their only MP.
    greenfield likes this.
  18. kebabking

    kebabking Unfettered ambition

    i don't think he was on a wrecking mission, but it seems pretty obvious that he was a very bad fit for UKIP - they agreed on two issues, the EU and the 'brokeness' of the current body politic and its relationship to the electorate, but they agreed on nothing else. Carswell is liberal and constitutional, UKIP is neither.

    i try, as rule, not to sympathise with politicians - but i think he was extremely uncomfortable with the Tory party, both the Cameron version and the May version, and was looking for somewhere to call home. i also thiink he discovered that UKIP was even less his cup of tea in very short order.

    he may fight the 2020 GE as an independant - i dont think he either wants to be a Tory and i don't think that Mays Tory party would have him - but i wouldn't be that surprised if he calls it a day.
  19. gosub

    gosub ~#

  20. 8den

    8den No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...

    I'll say one thing for UKIP leadership elections, between the Gay Donkey rapists, and Paul Nutalls days working as a Roadie for Motley Cru, they have the most entertaining leadership battles.
    kebabking likes this.
  21. kebabking

    kebabking Unfettered ambition

    winning the Battle of Britain and inventing the internet, shurely?
  22. 8den

    8den No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...

    How could forget, Paul was the real life inspiration for Biggles, Roy of the Rovers and Dan Dare pilot of the future.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    kebabking likes this.
  23. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    “Whether Banks stands as an independent, Patriotic Alliance or Ukip, those things are all up for discussion,” said Andy Wigmore, Banks’s spokesman.

    “We were due to launch it on 5 May, but events supersede everything. We will just concentrate on the Clacton swamp. Make Clacton great.

  24. agricola

    agricola a genuine importer of owls

    Carswell has just said he isn't standing again.
  25. Who PhD

    Who PhD strong and stable Dalek Empire Banned

    Alls well that fuck off you racist opportunist! :D

    He's saying vote tory, which means he wants back in.
  26. kebabking

    kebabking Unfettered ambition

    It appears not.

    He is saying he will be supporting the Tory candidate, but everything else he's saying suggests he is not looking to continue his political career.
  27. existentialist

    existentialist Spartacus? No, never heard of him.

    I suspect he's only putting a brave face on the fact that his political career has now reached a dead end in any case.
  28. kebabking

    kebabking Unfettered ambition

    I don't know, i think it may be more nuanced than that - certainly it's true that he didn't appear to see much future either as a UKIP or an ex-UKIP, independent MP in a post-Brexit world, and that Theresa May is not one to forgive what she would see as disloyalty and accept him back in the conservative fold - he also appears to have considered his 'purpose' as having been broadly achieved.

    I'd certainly accept that its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, that he thought it unlikely he'd win the next election and didn't fancy going though it all again in order to lose - but his demeanour (over the last several months) suggested to me one who gratefully accepts voluntarily redundancy when they were considering resigning.
    existentialist likes this.
  29. gosub

    gosub ~#

    I don't know, Lord Carswell would really fuck Farage off.

    Farage also not standing.
    kebabking likes this.
  30. Lurdan

    Lurdan old wave

    Carswell's photo op yesterday


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