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UK population grows by more than 400,000

cynicaleconomy said:
Noone is saying that the only factor impacting on job numbers is population growth. Obviously Spain's unemployment problems are political, not demographic.
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The fact that youth unemployment is more than twice as high as overall unemployment does suggest a problem of demographics. Or maybe not. You could look at it in a number of ways really.
 
weltweit said:
Rubbish, I understand fine that people are attracted to places where there is work and motivated to leave places where there is no work.

If you are arguing that an influx of people on its own creates jobs then I think you are misguided.
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There is no influx of people unless there are jobs. Once that influx starts, more jobs are generated by the larger population as those working spend their money and stimulate other activity. The growth of the US is a prime example of this.
 
The thing about unemployment and population is it works the other way around. People moving into somewhere doesn't necessarily mean there will be more jobs. It just means there were more to begin with, which is why they went they.
 
Favelado said:
The fact that youth unemployment is more than twice as high as overall unemployment does suggest a problem of demographics. Or maybe not. You could look at it in a number of ways really.
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No. There is massive youth unemployment due to the crisis. No new businesses starting, no businesses expanding - these are the conditions in which the young with no experience have a chance. But to have those, you need some form of investment, which is totally absent. That's not a demographic problem, just a sign that where there is an investment crisis, it is the young who are hit first.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Ask yourself this. Why do people move from one place to another? In the main - people of working age.

ETA: To get a proper picture of what's going on, you also have to look in greater detail than just countries. There will be parts of Britain where population is falling.
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Middlesbrough has a falling population. So does Burnley.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
There is no influx of people unless there are jobs. Once that influx starts, more jobs are generated by the larger population as those working spend their money and stimulate other activity. The growth of the US is a prime example of this.
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You can have an influx without jobs. Sub-saharan African immigration to the Mediterranean continues apace, despite the bleakness of the economic situation in Italy and Spain.
 
Favelado said:
You can have an influx without jobs. Sub-saharan African immigration to the Mediterranean continues apace, despite the bleakness of the economic situation in Italy and Spain.
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And they move on as soon as they can - that's a specific case where you have to think of the whole of Europe as the place they are migrating to. They are not choosing Spain/Italy specifically, but Europe.
 
Favelado said:
The fact that youth unemployment is more than twice as high as overall unemployment does suggest a problem of demographics. Or maybe not. You could look at it in a number of ways really.
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Unless the youth population suddenly jumped up around 2008, I'm not sure Spain's problems could be ever described as demographic. The reason young people often get hit by recessions more harshly is because they are not as established in their workplaces and so are seen as more expendable.

youth%20unemployment%202013.png
 
cynicaleconomy said:
Unless the youth population suddenly jumped up around 2008, I'm not sure Spain's problems could be ever described as demographic. The reason young people often get hit by recessions more harshly is because they are not as established in their workplaces and so are seen as more expendable.

youth%20unemployment%202013.png
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There's a lot of things going on in the Spain figures I imagine. Young people on legal contracts being swtiched over to black economy being a factor in there. I wonder if anyone knows whether that accounts for 10% or 50% of the total of unemplyed figures. Lots of young people who have never had a job at all if they graduated post-2008. I have a vague idea of what's going on but you need an expert to figure it all out here.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Exactly - as I've been pointing out, you don't understand a thing I'm saying.
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What concerns me is I don't think you understand what you are saying.

I repeat, the original point was that people generate jobs, not an influx of people, just people, I think I have proved that cannot be correct.

Then you made the point that people, especially of working age move for work which I think is a platitude, a trite or obvious remark.

Finally you made the point that an influx of people moving for work reasons generates more jobs because those people will need things, which is fine except that they have to have money to pay for these mythical things, where are they to get this money?

I am not arguing that there cannot be a sweet spot that an area can benefit by, an aligning of various positive economic factors allowing increasing prosperity. But I don't really believe in "trickle down", I don't believe people on their own create jobs and there are only so many cleaners, nannies, burger flippers that are needed in a developing area, to get more than that they need useful skills to contribute to the regions industries!
 
Favelado said:
There's a lot of things going on in the Spain figures I imagine. Young people on legal contracts being swtiched over to black economy being a factor in there. I wonder if anyone knows whether that accounts for 10% or 50% of the total of unemplyed figures. Lots of young people who have never had a job at all if they graduated post-2008. I have a vague idea of what's going on but you need an expert to figure it all out here.
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Not really. It's quite simple - last in first out, recruitment freezes, training schemes scrapped. The young get it first.
 
weltweit said:
What concerns me is I don't think you understand what you are saying.

I repeat, the original point was that people generate jobs, not an influx of people, just people, I think I have proved that cannot be correct.

Then you made the point that people, especially of working age move for work which I think is a platitude, a trite or obvious remark.

Finally you made the point that an influx of people moving for work reasons generates more jobs because those people will need things, which is fine except that they have to have money to pay for these mythical things, where are they to get this money?

I am not arguing that there cannot be a sweet spot that an area can benefit by, a aligning of various positive economic factors allowing increasing prosperity. But I don't really believe in "trickle down", I don't believe people on their own create jobs and there are only so many cleaners, nannies, burger flippers that are needed in a developing area, to get more than that they need useful skills to contribute to the regions industries!
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I'm not talking about fucking trickle down. But yes, on a basic level, more people does mean more jobs.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Not really. It's quite simple - last in first out, recruitment freezes, training schemes scrapped. The young get it first.
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Sorry you're definitely wrong there. It's not simple at all and there are lots of young. people who are listed as unemployed working illegally in Spain.
 
In the long run, the number of people is irrelevant to the number of jobs per person. It's nothing to do with 'trickle down' which is a concept regarding something else completely. It's about the fact that more people means higher aggregate demand, and a higher demand means more jobs.
 
Favelado said:
Make your mind up then.
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Young people can't get a job in the official economy because investment has collapsed. So they fish around for other things to do. Black economies always grow in times when the official system has frozen - because people still need to go on living, and there are still things that need doing that the official system can no longer provide for.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Young people can't get a job in the official economy because investment has collapsed. So they fish around for other things to do. Black economies always grow in times when the official system has frozen - because people still need to go on living, and there are still things that need doing that the official system can no longer provide for.
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Yes.
 
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