UK military happy slapping Iraqis

[MikeMcc]

Hah! What a funny world view - you'd think the army was an intensive PR training camp!

Military training deals primarily with the problem of how you get large numbers of people to murder strangers on command - something people aren't naturally disposed to do. It is practically impossible to do this without going mad if you fail to dehumanise the 'enemy', marginalise your emotions such as pity and compassion and create an amoral group-first mentality. The efficacy of the training is illustrated by the enormous number of soldiers who manage to hang on to their sanity until they return to a situation where the normal rules of human morality apply whereupon they suffer mental collapse.

Objectives like not over-reacting and general PR stuff are so far behind this big problem that they are out of sight.

The overwhelming majority of soldiers are not infantry. For them such training will consist of 12 weeks of basic training (in may case, it has varied over the years), a couple of military training courses to qualify for their 2nd and 3rd stripes, a couple of exercises a year! Most of the training is on the techniques to stay alive on a battlefield, and relatively little on the skills needed to kil anyone!

If soldiers were trained to "dehumanise the 'enemy', marginalise your emotions such as pity and compassion and create an amoral group-first mentality", then they would hardly be used to carry out many of the tasks that they have been used for in Iraq and other areas of helping to (re)build and fund schools, rebuild infrastructure, etc. The whole 'Hearts and Minds' idea. Most of the pre-operational training given is on how to contain and minimise situations.

As I said on a previous post, the Army does not make a good police force. The infantry are trained to be aggressive, they need to be to win battles. This does go counter to the training needed to make them good policemen.

Yes, there are tremendous numbers of soldiers who are affected by mental illnesses, particularly PTSD. If you feel as strongly about it as your post suggests, then please complain to your MP, because the support the Government (of both persuasions) provides for this is shockingly poor.

 

[machine cat]

The footage can be found here: Abuse

If you don't like violence then please don't view the movie. I think the guy filming it is more disturbing than the actual beatings.

 

[Capitalist]

Do soldiers committing criminal acts have to be dealt with via courts martial or can the 'ordinary' criminal courts deal with army crime does anyone know? It came up earlier (in real life, not on the boards).

UK Army Personnel are subject to both British Criminal law and Army Law, the only law they are excempt from is Iraqi Law.

The actions of the servicemen in the video would definitly transgress both elements of law and violate Human Rights Act. (prohibition of torture article)

 

[Ing_soc]

Course its disgusting - but in terms of how armies normally respond to rioters and brick throwers, its probably fairly mild.

i suppose so. i guess once they're already out there for the wrong reasons, doing the wrong things to the wrong people then everything else goes hand in hand with it all. i don't know, i just find it disturbing that i'm indirectly payin them to do that. and fuck knows what else.

 

[Ing_soc]

I think the guy filming it is more disturbing than the actual beatings.

i know. its one thing for people to talk about the stress that soldiers are under and them overreacting etc but the guy filming sounds exactly like some of the little shits i went to at school who'd happily join in kicking someone on the ground (smaller than them, boy or girl) and laugh about it afterwards, thinkin it made them hard. it makes me despair it really does.

personally i don't see the link between fighting for your life and taking some perverse pleasure in kicking a teenager in the nuts

 

[FruitandNut]

I heard somewhere that the demo beforehand had included the chucking of one or two 'explosive devices', is this a case of misinformation, or is it a 'fact' that got lost in the hullaballoo?

In regard to the squaddies; we appear to want them to be a 'sh*te hawk' in battle and 'Dixon of Dock Green' at all other times. Those particular knobheads are young guys, testosterone and adrenalin loaded and probably not over bright, so balls ups are bound to happen now and then - regrettibly. But compared with most other Armies we usually get the fighting AND the peacekeeping right MOST of the time.

 

[mutley]

I heard somewhere that the demo beforehand had included the chucking of one or two 'explosive devices', is this a case of misinformation, or is it a 'fact' that got lost in the hullaballoo?

In regard to the squaddies; we appear to want them to be a 'sh*te hawk' in battle and 'Dixon of Dock Green' at all other times. Those particular knobheads are young guys, testosterone and adrenalin loaded and probably not over bright, so balls ups are bound to happen now and then - regrettibly. But compared with most other Armies we usually get the fighting AND the peacekeeping right MOST of the time.

Who's this 'we'?

 

[FruitandNut]

Not you, mutley.

 

[mutley]

Ya damn right.

 

[MikeMcc]

I heard somewhere that the demo beforehand had included the chucking of one or two 'explosive devices', is this a case of misinformation, or is it a 'fact' that got lost in the hullaballoo?

In regard to the squaddies; we appear to want them to be a 'sh*te hawk' in battle and 'Dixon of Dock Green' at all other times. Those particular knobheads are young guys, testosterone and adrenalin loaded and probably not over bright, so balls ups are bound to happen now and then - regrettibly. But compared with most other Armies we usually get the fighting AND the peacekeeping right MOST of the time.

The BBC were showing some sort of explosion (likely to be an improvised grenade) inside the compound immediately before the snatch squads were filmed moving in.

 

[Azrael23]

Yes, there are tremendous numbers of soldiers who are affected by mental illnesses, particularly PTSD. If you feel as strongly about it as your post suggests, then please complain to your MP, because the support the Government (of both persuasions) provides for this is shockingly poor.

Yeah thats what I love about people screaming about supporting the troops. They forget the troops are only heroes when they`re doing what they`re told if they come back and start making noise about gulf war syndrome they`re suddenly traitors.

 

[MikeMcc]

It appears that two out of the four blokes are now going to be done for atempted murder have being filmed throwing grenades.

Link to Daily Record story