UCATT warning on Olympics

[durruti02]

"Tax warning over Olympics workers
By Andrew Taylor, Employment Correspondent

Published: July 8 2007 16:19 | Last updated: July 8 2007 16:19

A drive to cut Olympic construction costs is threatening to suck in large numbers of “bogus self-employed” migrant workers, leading to widespread tax avoidance and blocked work opportunities for local people, ministers have been warned.

Alan Ritchie, general secretary of UCATT, the construction union, has written to Jane Kennedy, financial secretary to the treasury, and Paul Gray, chairman of Revenue & Customs, warning that a decision by the Olympic Delivery Authority to allow contractors to recruit self-employed workers would encourage tax abuses and reduce site safety.

More than 10,000 construction workers are likely to be engaged in Olympic projects at the height of development, according to the union, which wants the authority to ban the use of self-employed workers.

Mr Ritchie said: “There is a growing fear that the ODA and the major Olympic contractors are trying to build the Olympics on the cheap, by employing large numbers of migrants workers on self-employed contracts [and] paying them far less than they would have to pay British employees.”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/a6a1fb3c-2d65-11dc-939b-0000779fd2ac.html

 

[The Black Hand]

"Tax warning over Olympics workers
By Andrew Taylor, Employment Correspondent

Published: July 8 2007 16:19 | Last updated: July 8 2007 16:19

A drive to cut Olympic construction costs is threatening to suck in large numbers of “bogus self-employed” migrant workers, leading to widespread tax avoidance and blocked work opportunities for local people, ministers have been warned.

Alan Ritchie, general secretary of UCATT, the construction union, has written to Jane Kennedy, financial secretary to the treasury, and Paul Gray, chairman of Revenue & Customs, warning that a decision by the Olympic Delivery Authority to allow contractors to recruit self-employed workers would encourage tax abuses and reduce site safety.

More than 10,000 construction workers are likely to be engaged in Olympic projects at the height of development, according to the union, which wants the authority to ban the use of self-employed workers.

Mr Ritchie said: “There is a growing fear that the ODA and the major Olympic contractors are trying to build the Olympics on the cheap, by employing large numbers of migrants workers on self-employed contracts [and] paying them far less than they would have to pay British employees.”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/a6a1fb3c-2d65-11dc-939b-0000779fd2ac.html

I am not sure whether this is a disguised call for a return to large full time employment for construction workers that flies in the face of industry practice, or is a straightforward racist attack. Given the benefit of the doubt it could be a call to improve standards for every worker. Perhaps its all of these?

 

[durruti02]

I am not sure whether this is a disguised call for a return to large full time employment for construction workers that flies in the face of industry practice, or is a straightforward racist attack. Given the benefit of the doubt it could be a call to improve standards for every worker. Perhaps its all of these?

why and how on earth is it a racist attack?

it is surely a call for proper working terms and conditions ..

 

[The Black Hand]

why and how on earth is it a racist attack?

it is surely a call for proper working terms and conditions ..

This bit made me think it was a racist attack;

"numbers of “bogus self-employed” migrant workers".

I do not think that my interpretation is contraversial.

 

[mk12]

how is that racist?

 

[belboid]

the supposed implication that only migrant workers would be 'bogus self-employed'. It certainly is a lazy and somewhat ill-thought out turn of phrase.

 

[chymaera]

the supposed implication that only migrant workers would be 'bogus self-employed'. It certainly is a lazy and somewhat ill-thought out turn of phrase.

Even if it happens to be true?

 

[mk12]

I think the fact they put bogus self-employed in speech marks suggests they didn't totally agree with the statement.

 

[The Black Hand]

Even if it happens to be true?

Bollocks.

 

[TAE]

“bogus self-employed”

That is a problem in general, I think, whether it concerns migrant worker or local workers. The Inland Revenue have a leaflet about who is/not self-employed (things like: 'can you choose what hours to work'). Some employers like to pretend that their staff are not employees because that means less tax, red tape, no paid holidays etc.

 

[chymaera]

Bollocks.

I would suggest that UCATT are in a far better position to voice concerns about dodgy practices by construction employers than most.
The fact they did not voice those concerns in a manner politically correct enough manner for you is not my problem.

 

[belboid]

Even if it happens to be true?

because no british workers would ever try such a thing??!! there aren't enough rolleyes in the world to express how absurd that statement is

I think the fact they put bogus self-employed in speech marks suggests they didn't totally agree with the statement.

the 'they' in this context would be the FT, not the union. Your point is somewhat obscure

 

[mk12]

Ah apologies - i thought it was taken from the ucatt website.

 

[butchersapron]

It's a really really crappily written release - what more can you expect from union tops.

 

[The Black Hand]

I would suggest that UCATT are in a far better position to voice concerns about dodgy practices by construction employers than most.
The fact they did not voice those concerns in a manner politically correct enough manner for you is not my problem.

Bollocks. Since when has the general secretary been on a building site.

you really are a bullshitter.

As it goes it has got dramatically harder to moonlight on construction sites or do other tax dodges, for a number of reasons. You are the one who knows fuck all about the trades...

 

[butchersapron]

last time you were working on the sites black attica?

 

[chymaera]

because no british workers would ever try such a thing??!!

I think you are very, very, out of touch.
Unite Union magazine Issue 14, Summer 2007, page 14:- "The government needs to implement a full range of minimum standards for working people if it wants to reconnect with it's grassroots. Failure to do so has led to insecurity at the workplace and misery amongst immigrants exploited by unscrupulous employers. It has also provoked anger among British workers who see their pay and conditions undercut."

 

[belboid]

which doesn't contradict my point one iota

 

[nino_savatte]

So "migrant workers" are the only ones who flout the law?

Shabby, very shabby.

 

[durruti02]

police warned last year that gangmasters will run olympics construction .. now that is shabby .. will get reference

 

[Das Uberdog]

It's nothing to do with migrant worker's being the only one's to flout the law, it's about the fact that they're willing to work for wages which most Brits would simply scoff at - and I also resent the idea that these 'self-employed' worker's are 'trying' this on, as implied here;

because no british workers would ever try such a thing??!!

You ever worked in a call centre? Or in fact, any labour intensive neo-Victorian style working conditioned job..? I have. You apply, then sign a contract claiming you're working 'self employed' so that they don't have to abide by minimum wage laws, working conditions laws (dinner breaks, etcetera) and the other unprofitable aspects of ensuring your workers aren't going to die on your construction site (as in the case of the Olympics). Obviously duruttio takes from this whatever he does, but as far as I'm concerned it's a perfectly valid example of cultural and national divisions being used to destroy the comfortable standard of living enjoyed by working class Brits today.

 

[newbie]

The difference between local and migrant s/e contractors is that locals have a far greater incentive to stay around and pay tax. The s/e are paid without deductions, the Revenue collects tax 12 or more months later through self assessment. By which time the contracts will have finished and some or many of the migrants gone elsewhere, leaving the Revenue to whistle.

 

[treelover]

Isn't it the case there were some violent clashes in the 70's between workers on construction sites and casual workers, often Irish 'navvies' 'the lump' i think they called it. is this different?

The WEDNESDAY PLAY: The LUMP

(1967)


Production countries

* Great Britain


NFA Catalogue

When Yorkie, a bricklayer from Yorkshire, is sacked from a job for union activities, he is forced to take up employment on 'the lump', an exploitative mode of work which eschews proper job regulation. Accompanied by idealist political student, Mike, who is working on site for the summer break, Yorkie runs into trouble with the Irish navvies whose...

More...

l]http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/27490[/url]

 

[butchersapron]

The lump was according my old man who was involved in the fight against it anyway, was a form of legal cash-in-hand work that was designed to undermine the conditions of the workers as a whole - sort of an early attempt to use self-employment as an attack on the workers in an industry as a whole.

 

[glenquagmire]

Ricky Tomlinson and others did time for beating up scabs during the fight against the lump.

 

[Leeloks]

I think that migrant workers can be exploited by some employers. I heard of an agency near me that a mate was employed with, they were paying migrants under the minimum wage because they knew they were desperate to work.

You get dodgy locals performing such acts but we have to remember that the majority of migrants come from lands not as fruitful as ours and they are desperate to work at any cost on some occasions.
They probably feel they don't have much to lose in some cases. Not perhaps thinking "fingers up to England".

Just a little off record, i went to sign with an agency for some summer work the other day and they said "sign the page there mate and we'll call you", opened this A4 book and there was 2 pages from the day full of Polish, Russian, Albanian names....i thought "yeah i'm gonna get a call!".
The influx has affected me then in a subtle way, not bitter at all though, life's to short and the majority of migrants i have worked with have been superb.

 

[nino_savatte]

police warned last year that gangmasters will run olympics construction .. now that is shabby .. will get reference

That's gangmasters but the general feeling among many posters here is that migrant workers are predisposed to criminality.

 

[Leeloks]

That's gangmasters but the general feeling among many posters here is that migrant workers are predisposed to criminality.

Aren't a lot of gangmasters migrants? You have to cut the line and get decent legislation in (as above with Polish workers case) to protect innocents. Something in which this country is inept/slow at doing.

 

[belboid]

That's gangmasters but the general feeling among many posters here is that migrant workers are predisposed to criminality.

mm, I dont think that that is the case at all. Even the dumber poster (eg baldwin) would not say that, but would realise that migrant workers are in a position where they are far easier to be exploited by the unscrupulous than 'native uk' workers are.

 

[nino_savatte]

Aren't a lot of gangmasters migrants? You have to cut the line and get decent legislation in (as above with Polish workers case) to protect innocents. Something in which this country is inept/slow at doing.

Are they? I think the Morecambe Bay gangmaster was English iirc.